Chinese CVA by 2010
 

China Says Aircraft Carrier Possible By 2010: Paper
By REUTERS, HONG KONG

China could build its first aircraft carrier by 2010 if current research and development proceeds smoothly, a Hong Kong newspaper quoted a Chinese general as saying on March 7. The Beijing-funded Wen Wei Po newspaper identified the source as a “zhong jiang,” meaning lieutenant general or vice admiral, depending on the service, and a member of the military delegation at a parliament session in Beijing. It did not give further details.

Experts say China’s military has been researching carriers for years as a way to protect its interests offshore, but there has been no formal admission of a program to build one.

Earlier this week, China announced a 17.8 percent rise in its official defense budget for 2007, to 350.92 billion yuan ($45.32 billion), continuing a trend of double-digit growth. Foreign experts say the real amount may be three or more times that.

China has been modernizing its military with an emphasis on naval and air power to strengthen its hand with regard to Taiwan and too also better protect its economic interests such as shipping lanes in the South China Sea.
Beijing says its military is only for defense, but the rapid upgrade of its capabilities in recent years has worried some in the region.

Ties between China and Taiwan have become increasingly strained recently as Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian raised Beijing’s ire with pro-independence comments. On Monday, Taiwan’s defense ministry said Beijing’s increasing defense spending threatened regional peace and upset the military balance in favor of China. Last month, a Japanese legislator warned that Japan could become a Chinese province “if something goes wrong in Taiwan in the next 15 years”.

The military buildup has been a source of friction with the United States, which is obliged under the Taiwan Relations Act to help Taiwan defend itself.

China’s President Hu Jintao in December urged the building of a powerful Chinese navy that was prepared “at any time” for military struggle.....
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Navy: China Bolsters Ballistic Missile Subs
BY AGENCE FRANCE-PRESS

China is conducting sea trials of the first of five new nuclear-powered submarines armed with longer-range ballistic missiles, according to a U.S. naval intelligence report made public Friday. The sea trials are part of a broader push by China to check U.S. naval power in the western Pacific with a more modern fleet of nuclear-powered ballistic missile and attack submarines, the Office of Naval Intelligence said.

The first of the nuclear ballistic missile submarines, designated the Type 094 SSBN, could begin operating as early as 2008, ONI said. The submarine “will provide China with a modern and robust sea-based nuclear deterrent force,” the ONI reported. It will be equipped with the JL-2 sea-launched ballistic missile with range of 5,000 miles, a big gain over China’s only other ballistic missile submarine. The XIA SSBN, a 24-year-old nuclear powered vessel, is armed with the JL-1 missile, which has a range of 1,000 miles.

The ONI said China probably will build five of the new ballistic missile submarines “to provide more redundancy and capacity for a near-continuous at-sea SSBN presence.” “Construction and sea trials of the Type 094 program are ongoing,” ONI said.

The unclassified ONI report, which was obtained by AFP and has a question-and-answer format, was first reported by Sea Power magazine, then picked up by the Washington Times. It said China also is concluding sea trials of a new Type 093 nuclear-powered attack submarine that is expected to be quieter and armed with more advanced weaponry than its predecessor, the HAN SSN class submarines. It will have anti-ship cruise missiles and more modern torpedoes than the HAN, the report said.

“China has built these features into the Type 093 in an effort to improve the [Peoples Liberation Army Navy] to conduct anti-surface warfare at greater ranges from the Chinese coast than its diesel submarine force offers,” it said.

Unless the keel has already been laid (or the super-blocks started), then there is no chance of China having a CV before 2010.

Perhaps what is meant is that China could start building its first carrier by 2010.

Goody! more targets for the Collins class subs!

Are you sure,
it is China they do have the occasional worker or two
:O

And they can build a very large warship, of a type they have never before built, in 3 years?

If so, then they are better shipbuilders than everyone else in the world who has built a 40,000+ ton carrier!


Or is that your contention?

China bought the Kiev (Binhai Aircraft Carrier Museum), HMAS Melbourne, Minsk and Varyag. The latter may be seaworthy. Let's say, two to examine whilst scrapping them, one to play around with, one to restore as a training platform while China builds a real one of its own. So someone's interested in carriers there.

Anyone could build a carrier 'lookylikey' in 3 years so long as they had enough resource. It's just that it will be a pile of dog poo when compared to the proper article and more akin to use in a theme park as a kids plaything than used as a war fighting platform with integrated aviation capability. (Haven't they already got a Nimitz size mock-up in a naval theme park?)

Hat's off to their ambition, but I expect it's basic propaganda to feed the general feeling in the west that China is going to be a Superpower.:hmm: As if......

I didn't say that it would be a good one.
just built in the time frame :}

The Chinese don't have to worry about Anglo/French-style egos and differences nor worker relations (or otherwise), so when someone says 'Build', everyone builds. The result doesn't need to be terribly good, especially if there is a new keel being laid down every second weekend. Perhaps the Chinese are working on the fact that large numbers of simple bits of kit are probably worth much more than a couple of gold-plated ones. And if the jets on board are good.....................

It is do-able - if you have a good shipbuilding industry (which they have). Forrestal went from being laid down to commissioning in just over three years, before the yanks discovered a "requirementeering" industry and started planning for comprehensive through-life doo-dahs. With the exception of the cats (which they won't have if they go STOBAR), there really isn't anything massively complex about a carrier in either design or build, once you know how it's done. Depends how much IT infrastructure, electrical distribution you have and what accommodation standard you want to go for.

Get on and build it is anathema in the west with our endless rebudgeting, trade-off and capability management industries reducing the purchasing power of the procurement budget. I know it's a necessary element of the process, but the way we do it adds a massive overhead. In China, as numerous posters have pointed out, it's a question of get on with it and don't come back and say it's going to be late!

Suspect that they are aiming for a 2010 start of production, but you just never know.

Or they could re-fit/re-engineer Varyag.

This is a shot of Varyag at the end of last year. This has been her berthing since moving out of drydock. She received a zinc based deck coating and has been repainted in PLAN colours.
http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon...ck%20Paint.jpg
The Chinese are also interested in purchasing Su-33 Flanker Ds. In October of 2006, the Kommersant online newspaper in Moscow announced a deal between Russia and China where the Russians sell up to 50 Su-33 fighters to China for $2.5 billion.

Still riding pretty high out of the water, but seems a bit lower than in mid-2006... maybe some equipment has been fitted?


Back when the sale was first made public, my friends and I all agreed that she would be used as a training carrier... despite the "commercial uses only" clause in the sale... and it appears that we were right. :=

Or is it that the "amusement park company" that "owns" her is just going to "contract to provide a ship for training PLAN pilots in ship-board flight operations", and she will never be officially added to the PLAN OOB? :rolleyes:

Tyhe problem with the chinese building a carrier in 2010 is that 20 minutes later they will want another one :\

regards

retard

They might just do a Los Alamos... PLAN ship Ron Rea-Gan coming your way soon!

A handy guide for those interested...

DefenseNews.com: China’s Navy, According to the U.S. Navy - ONI Publishes Detailed Portrait of Chinese Service

Those who argue for an increase in U.S. naval spending often point to China and the rapid and extensive growth of the People’s Liberation Army Navy, but good reference material on the PLAN has been scarce. Now, the U.S. Navy’s Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) has stepped in to fill that gap, producing a 144-page handbook on the world’s fastest-growing navy.

“China’s Navy 2007,” released in early March, is intended to “foster a better understanding” of the PLAN, according to William Tarry, director of the Naval Analysis Directorate.

In the handbook’s preface, Terry says that the handbook is not an analysis of trends or intent, but is meant to educate and inform readers “during this time of greater contact” between the U.S. Navy and the PLAN.

The book, available as an Adobe Acrobat PDF file, does not include the many illustrations and multiple lists of ships or ship types found in standard reference works. But it is packed with information on the PLAN’s leadership and bureaucratic organization, how its personnel system works, where its forces are based and organized and how its political system works. A concise history of the Chinese Navy is included, along with separate chapters on submarines, surface forces, naval aviation, coastal defense forces, marines and weapon systems. One chapter is devoted to quality of life, and a handy six-page glossary of Chinese terms is included.

This is a sophisticated description of a naval service that can inform the ongoing debate regarding the capabilities and intentions of China’s leaders.

Varyag out of dry dock with new island with AESA radar.

Ares: Heck Of A Casino You Got There, Admiral Wu

reminds me of a quote from a retired nimitz class "air boss" from a few years back.

the jist of which was "we could give this boat and aircraft to the reds, and it would STILL take them over ten years to learn how to use it correctly"

Frankly speaking - so what?

aha..

a new coat of paint and a new flag on our old "War Canoe" ,HMAS Melbourne, and they're in business.

She was sold as scrap but still exists and is used by the Chinese to study aircraft carrier methods etc. Ancient as she may be it still looks and works like more modern machinery.

We sold scrap iron to the Japs just before WW2!.

This time no bullets and bombs, just lots of yuan!!!!:rolleyes:

###targets for a Collins class sub,,,,,oh dear, someone is reading the press releases. Five Collins out of six have been sunk by the RAN and the dockyards...

If these are what they purport to be (and they look credible to me), then our Chinese friends are not hanging about.....

http://alert5.com/wp-content/uploads...0ao0e8gmg1.jpg

http://alert5.com/wp-content/uploads...0e80aojrz1.jpg

As pointed out elsewhere, the notch in the deck on the right is for an aircraft catapult pit, indicating the Chinese are intending to go develop a full steam or EMALS launch system.

Work under way on China's second aircraft carrier at Dalian yard

Huge ship and two advanced destroyers being built at Dalian yard says Liaoning party chief, according to reports later deleted from internet

China is reportedly building a second aircraft carrier, estimated to be completed by 2018, on its way to expanding its fleet to four of the massive ships.

Media reports - later deleted from the internet - stated Liaoning party chief Wang Min told a panel of the provincial people's congress that the second carrier was being built in the city of Dalian. The reports also quoted Wang as saying the port city was building two advanced 052D destroyers. Wang told delegates from Dalian yesterday that the shipyard had started building China's second carrier after the first one, Liaoning, was delivered to the navy. The shipyard was responsible for refitting Liaoning, formerly a Ukrainian carrier. Wang said construction of the new carrier would take six years and China's navy would eventually have four.

While the report did not specify the exact completion date, the new carrier is expected to be completed in 2018, based on the delivery date of Liaoning to the navy in September 2012. It was the first confirmation by a senior official that China was building a second carrier, as well as the location and the timetable of its construction. The Defence Ministry has been tight-lipped about the progress of the plan.

The South China Morning Post reported in November that China would build four medium carriers by 2020. A country needs three to four carrier battlegroups for combat capability. The United States, by comparison, has 10 active carriers. The carriers are part of China's push to develop a so-called blue water navy at a time when tension is running high with neighbours including Japan and the Philippines. In December, the USS Cowpens had to change course to avoid a near collision with one of the ships in the Liaoning squadron conducting tests in the South China Sea.

Military experts yesterday were divided about why the report was removed from the internet. "I am sure Wang Min did say that in the panel meeting. But it seems that it is not proper for him to make the news public," a senior naval colonel said, requesting anonymity. One retired PLA general said: "There is only one reason for such an important piece of news to come out in this way: the central authorities want to keep it low profile." Macau-based military expert Wang Dong yesterday said it made sense that Dalian shipyard was responsible for the construction of the new carrier. "However, it is worth keeping an eye if Dalian also gets the orders to build type 052D destroyers as they are usually built by Shanghai shipyard. If Dalian is building both, it may exceed their capacity,' he said.

A spokesman of Defence Ministry yesterday declined to comment when reached by the Sunday Morning Post.

optimistic t o put it mildly

the delivery date of the second carrier of 2018 is "based on that of the Liaoning"

but she was already built - just refurbished

The "USN Gerald Ford" will be 10 years in building for example............. and they know what they're doing.......

Then again, we've been talking about high speed rail for over a decade - they've built an entire network in 6......

It is usually far more difficult to undertake complex work on a ship already built, than it is to build from scratch. Liaonang pretty much required gutting and then re-outfitting which is incredibly labour intensive.

As for Ford, don't confuse budget constrained timelines with ones where if you want something to happen, you throw resource at it until it does. I refer you to the build times for the likes of Forrestal and Enterprise.........

Carrier Future
 

Ah yes, Carriers, the Battleships of the 21st Century. If (heaven forbid) there is another Major Power punch-up the Carriers will, no doubt, go the same way the Battle-wagons went in WW2.
Modern weapons would seem to indicate that the day for any Capital Ship is surely over. They are just big high-value Targets fighting the Last War.
KB

No doubt why we're building 2 of them. Perhaps they should be renamed the Repulse and the Prince of Wales?

Actually we've already agreed to sell them to the Chinese (probably....)

Now, now 'KiloB', everyone knows HMS White Elephant and HMS Boondoggle are essential for the future RN and will provide a first rate deterrent to any uppity pygmy women with sharpened mangoes who may wish to cross cutlasses with jolly Jack Tar.

As an aside think of all the space they'll have if they ever start holding cocktail parties again.

Chinese aircraft carriers are the least the worries for local nations.

China to become world's largest missile producer: report?Politics?News?WantChinaTimes.com

Quantity has a quality all its own. If you saturate an area with conventional ballistic missiles, at some point all of the THAAD/Aegis/Patriot/Arrow batteries either run out of rounds or can't handle the flow of the missiles raining down.

"May you live in interesting times."

It appears that we do, particular those who live along the Pacific Rim.

Carrier is a long term project.

China's J-15 Flying Sharks Train Onboard Carrier Liaoning

China building 2nd aircraft carrier; hints at third one

Perhaps they'd build a couple for us. I bet they'd cost less than £2 billion a shot, with or without cat.

Per the video, they seem to have adopted the shirt colors and handling signals used in NATO. I guess that you should copy the best when you copy. :ok:

The carriers being built at Rosyth are straddled by an enormous crane that despite being emblazoned with Bae logos and white ensigns is on lease from China and will eventually be dismantled and returned A few years back I jokingly mentioned that the crane was probably blue-toothed to a 3D printer in Shanghai.
Maybe the truth's out there?:suspect:

Coming in ahead of even the optomistic schedule discussed previously And the future carriers look like being nuclear CATOBAR carriers. One wonders if they have copied Russian, French... Or USN designs. Interesting to consider if they will roll out with EMALS.

China's First Homemade Carrier Could Take to the Seas Later This Year

And we only run nukes now.


If the Chinese choose to go nuke and choose to go CATOBAR, I'd be surprised if they don't go EMALS (I have no doubt they've done their due diligence/industrial espionage, they are serious about this stuff) as it leapfrogs into a better capability. Why not copy the better idea if it's the better idea? Good thinking, IMO, on their part ... as long as they can afford it. through the mid term at least, they can, and I'll bet the over on the long term.

well they're emulating the west with their in-service estimates anyway (see thread title)

Must have hacked LM & BAe project planning software

China flight testing modified J-15 for CATOBAR operations | IHS Jane's 360

Latest updates from IHS Jane's 360 Friday 23rd September 2016
IHS Jane's 360 HOME DEFENCE SECURITY INDUSTRY China flight testing modified J-15 for CATOBAR operations
http://images.ihs.com/EloquaImages/c...884_-_main.jpg

China has been flight testing a new variant of its J-15 navalised fighter modified for catapult-assisted take-off but arrested recovery (CATOBAR) operations, according to images posted on Chinese online forums

Photos of China?s aircraft carrier urge better protection of confidential information - People's Daily Online

http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/a...-thumbx300.jpg

http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/a...-thumb450x.jpg

http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/a...-thumb450x.jpg

http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/a...-thumb450x.jpg

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http://www.popsci.com/china-builds-n...ircraft-carrie

"......With all major structures on the CV-17 complete, the remaining tasks before launch include wiring the ship, installing sensors, electronics and self defense weapons, and various key systems like aircraft elevators, ship propellers and rudders. Presently, the CV-17is targeted to hit the water in mid 2017 for fitting out, and then into service with the PLAN, thus expanding China's naval aviation capability and power projection. However, the CV-17 can expect to reach operational status faster that its predecessor benefits from the Liaoning's years of training Chinese carrier pilots. And with more capable carriers in the pipeline, like the catapult-equipped Type 002 and nuclear-powered Type 003, China's blue-water navy will only become more formidable.".....

http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci.c...5C4sa&fc=38,38