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https://chinapower.csis.org/china-carrier-type-002/ Tracking the Type 002 – China’s third aircraft carrier |
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...ext-generation
China’s navy ‘set to pick J-20 stealth jets for its next generation carriers’China’s military is likely to pick the country’s first active stealth fighter, the J-20, for its next generation aircraft carriers, according to military sources and a recent report on state media.The J-20, made by the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC), appears to have a won a head-to-head contest with the FC-31, a fighter made by another company which is still undergoing testing.A military insider told the South China Morning Post that the Central Military Commission, the People’s Liberation Army’s top decision-making body, now favoured adapting the J-20 for its new carriers. “The Chengdu Aerospace Corporation will announce some new products, which will include a new version of their J-20. You can guess what type it will be,” the military insider, who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject, said. The FC-31 was independently developed by CAC’s sister company Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC), which also produced the J-15 – the jets currently in use on the country’s only active aircraft carrier, the Liaoning. Both aerospace firms are subsidiaries of the state-owned giant Aviation Industry Corporation of China, which specialises in designing and developing military aircraft, and were set up to ensure benign competition between manufacturers. |
ORAC - what is the current best estimate for the CVA-002 to start working up?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_002_aircraft_carrier The ship is expected to be launched in 2020 and enter active service in 2023.[10] It is estimated to have an aircraft capacity of about 40 fighter aircraft, several propeller powered transport and airborne early warning and control aircraft.[15] https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/chin...-supercarrier/ |
Many thanks!
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https://www.defensenews.com/training...eapons-at-sea/
China home-built aircraft carrier tests weapons at sea BEIJING — China’s Defense Ministry said the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s only entirely home-built aircraft carrier is performing sea trials to test weapons and equipment as well as enhance training of the crew. Ministry spokesperson Ren Guoqiang said Friday the exercises were being conducted as planned, apparently unaffected by the country’s coronavirus outbreak. The Shandong’s commissioning last year by Chinese President Xi Jinping underscored the country’s rise as a regional naval power at a time of tensions with the U.S. and others over trade, Taiwan and the South China Sea. It is the second Chinese aircraft carrier to enter service after the Liaoning, which was originally purchased as a hull from Ukraine and entirely refurbished. Both are based on a Soviet design with a ”ski jump”-style flight deck for takeoffs rather than the flat decks used by much larger U.S. aircraft carriers. It is powered by a conventional, oil-fueled steam turbine power plant, compared to the nuclear fuel used by American carriers and submarines........ |
Mind you, not sure how they’d get airborne from a carrier with enough fuel to give any away.....
Shenyang J-15s practicing night buddy-buddy AAR... |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 10555896)
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...ext-generation
China’s navy ‘set to pick J-20 stealth jets for its next generation carriers’China’s military is likely to pick the country’s first active stealth fighter, the J-20, for its next generation aircraft carriers, according to military sources and a recent report on state media.The J-20, made by the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC), appears to have a won a head-to-head contest with the FC-31, a fighter made by another company which is still undergoing testing.A military insider told the South China Morning Post that the Central Military Commission, the People’s Liberation Army’s top decision-making body, now favoured adapting the J-20 for its new carriers. “The Chengdu Aerospace Corporation will announce some new products, which will include a new version of their J-20. You can guess what type it will be,” the military insider, who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject, said. The FC-31 was independently developed by CAC’s sister company Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC), which also produced the J-15 – the jets currently in use on the country’s only active aircraft carrier, the Liaoning. Both aerospace firms are subsidiaries of the state-owned giant Aviation Industry Corporation of China, which specialises in designing and developing military aircraft, and were set up to ensure benign competition between manufacturers. |
Very Top Gun(ish), in more senses than one....
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Chariots of Fire at the start but clearly a co-ordinated effort to raise the profile of the Carrier Force with the Chinese public
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Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 10932041)
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Is it true that they all have very poor eyesight and have to wear glasses? Asking for a friend.
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Originally Posted by FODPlod
(Post 10932174)
Can any of these aircraft launch (or land) carrying a decent payload?
I can see how in the low speed/high AUW take-off of a VSTOL type like Harrier/F-35B, the vertical thrust element is usefully augmented by the vertical motion generated by going up the ski jump, giving more time/height for the aircraft to accelerate to the speed needed to transition to wing-borne flight. However with a conventional type the aircraft clearly needs to achieve flying speed by the time it reaches the end of the deck. If the engine thrust alone can achieve this, I’m not clear what advantage the ski-jump gives, beyond pointing the jet away from the sea. If anything I’d expect it to actually reduce acceleration just when it’s most needed. It’d be interesting to hear Engines or Mogwi’s thoughts on this. |
The current PLA Navy carriers use STOBAR - launching with a ski ramp to cause an upward trajectory and increased angle of attack. It uses a lot of the deck - and so does the arrested recovery.
When the Soviets decided to build big carriers in the eighties, they decided not to go for a successor to the Yak-38 Forger, as they did not have the technology to compete with the Rolls Royce Pegasus engine. They also decided that developing a Steam Catapult would take too long. It offers none of the advantages of vertical landing, reduces payload compared to either V/STOL or catapult launch, and uses a lot of deck. |
Am I missing something? I see ne evidence of a Steam or ELMS type catapult. So just a ski jump assisted take off.
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https://www.defensenews.com/naval/20...ting-facility/
Stealth fighter mock-up appears at China’s aircraft carrier testing facility MELBOURNE, Australia — China is stepping up its aircraft carrier program on all fronts with the emergence of a stealth fighter mock-up at a naval test facility, suggesting that China intends to operate the type on its ships. Meanwhile, the construction of China’s third aircraft carrier is making steady progress, while a state media news clip shows carrier-borne fighters have been based at a naval air base, which has been geolocated to a naval air base in Hainan Island bordering the South China Sea. The latter will be one of the final pieces to the jigsaw for China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy, or PLAN, to base its second aircraft carrier, the Shandong, and its associated air wing at Hainan, the main base of its South Sea Fleet…… |
"geolocated" ???????????????????
Do they mean relocated? |
No, they mean that metadata and other means - such as using satellite photos and videos to triangulate landmarks in photos - has been used to pinpoint the location of the airfield from the published photos.
while a state media news clip shows carrier-borne fighters have been based at a naval air base https://www.bellingcat.com/resources...o-geolocation/ https://www.bellingcat.com/resources...-verification/ |
"However with a conventional type the aircraft clearly needs to achieve flying speed by the time it reaches the end of the deck. If the engine thrust alone can achieve this, I’m not clear what advantage the ski-jump gives, beyond pointing the jet away from the sea. If anything I’d expect it to actually reduce acceleration just when it’s most needed.
It’d be interesting to hear Engines or Mogwi’s thoughts on this." There is a small advantage in launching conventional aircraft from a ramp because the first few seconds of flight are partially ballistic, giving the aircraft time to accelerate to above stalling speed. Vectored thrust gives a much greater advantage as the aircraft is "covered 1/3 in anti-gravity paint" as JF used to explain. This meant that the Jumping Bean could exit the ramp around 90 kts, with a stall speed of c160 kts. This obviously requires the ability to control the aircraft at extremely low IAS. I believe that our American cousins have done trials with F 18s in the past but I haven't seen any data. There is also a limiting top speed for using a ramp because of nose leg compression - and extension! Mog |
Doug Taylor
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It's all right for you 'eros, but at my level there's a lot to be said for 'inshallah' or "OK God, I have control" when working with this sort of optimistic technology.God bless Doug Taylor - RIP 2019, age 89. He was 831 Squadron AEO in 1961-62 and 'Flight Deck Engineer Officer' of the Vic, as the FAAOA story below relates.
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Originally Posted by Mogwi
(Post 11059984)
There is a small advantage in launching conventional aircraft from a ramp because the first few seconds of flight are partially ballistic, giving the aircraft time to accelerate to above stalling speed. Mog
On the subject of Harrier take-off performance, at Gioia del Colle in Aug 1995 (v.hot) we were filming Jaguars and Harriers on OP DELIBERATE FORCE for HQSTC. To catch the Jaguars getting airborne we had to position a long way down the runway. The Harriers were at about 500’ by the time they went past! |
China ma6 be rethinking building CVA004 as a nuclear carrier, plus an update on CVA003.
https://min.news/en/military/e738f73...047e57bab.html The 003 aircraft carrier will be launched. When will the 004 nuclear-powered aircraft carrier start?The conclusion may be unexpected https://inf.news/en/military/43ca68f...c568c27a6.html https://inf.news/en/military/5ef07d4...61cfa39c4.html |
Reports that the construction equipment being cleared from the dry dock on carrier 003 with launch being imminent.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/a...craft-carrier/ https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d9fbb36fc.jpeg |
I'd suspect she'll be launched around 1st October - National Day
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Nope, already launched. Time & tide wait for no man….
China’s first conventional aircraft carrier "Fujian” is out of dock and afloat. (Second in size only to US Ford/Nimitz class). https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....15b97eab6.jpeg |
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"I'd suspect she'll be launched around 1st October - National Day"
Well that was wrong!! Thanks Spaz - they clearly can't wait for her!! I like the look of that island as well |
. On edge! A PLAN Shenyang J-15 aboard the aircraft carrier Liaoning. Notice that even the horizontal stabilisers are foldable? Yup, the J-15 is that big!
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5e43f840f.jpeg |
Military Origami ... I like it!
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Chinese Naval Modernization In 2023 Reviewed 03 Jan 2024
"...For carrier- and amphibious capability one of two headliners for Chinese naval modernization in 2023 was, as expected, again the third aircraft carrier Fujian. The first of her class, featuring electromagnetic catapults for conventional take off and arrested landing (CATOBAR) of fixed wing combat aircraft, continued her fitting-out at Jiangnan in Shanghai. Most importantly in November Fujian had begun with the first dead load-catapult test launches. The step underscores steady progress towards an expected first sea trial in 2024. Over the last few days of December tugboats towed the carrier back into drydock. The rationale for this move remains unknown. However it seems plausible that the hull will receive a thorough clean and inspection preparing Fujian for her sea trials next year [2024]...." https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...2023-reviewed/ Same PHOTO as above: "Chinese carrier Fujian being towed back into drydock December 2023. Source: Chinese social media." https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content...21rp0zu7jq.jpg |
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I would imagine they have various airframes for checks on lifts, electrical connectors, EM interference checks etc.
Plus they’ll need to check datalinks for navigation systems, mission system updates etc. |
That ship isn't at deep displacement yet by a long chalk. She's going to have problems with slamming on the sponsons - freeboard looks way too low.
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NAB - that's a very interesting observation and possibly something they haven't thought through. Any suggestions as to what restrictions that might put on her deployment when fully equipped?
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NAB - that's a very interesting observation and possibly something they haven't thought through. |
Appalling isn't it? They probably checked with the Daily Mail tho'...............
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On her way to dry dock for hull inspection before sea trials later in the year.
How much difference t9 displacement will a full fuel, weapons, supplies, aircraft, manpower etc make? (IIRC the T41s had to maintain a minimum of a 50% fuel load later in life, once they received a heavier radar antenna which made them top heavy?) |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 11569008)
On her way to dry dock for hull inspection before sea trials later in the year.<br /><br />How much difference t9 displacement will a full fuel, weapons, supplies, aircraft, manpower etc make?<br /><br />(IIRC the T41s had to maintain a minimum of a 50% fuel load later in life, once they received a heavier radar antenna which made them top heavy?)
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