US Army Warrants
 

I have asked this question elsewhere but havent recieved a sensible answer yet.

Have any US warrants had any problems with the Brits concerning our rank? They don't understand we're officers.

Anyone else had the same problem?

Err, WO1 funnily enough.

I remember a US Army UH60 WO pilot flew into RAF Bruggen and I booked him into the Sergeants', not the Officers' Mess for his accommodation.
No complaints at all from him. I think he was grateful for somewhere to put his head (and happy hour).

God Bless.

So British NCOs should salute a US Army WO1.

Most Warrants Officers I know are on their own planet anyway, one way or another.
:E

Several years ago whilst stationed at Rheindahlen I made a trip to Ramstein with some colleague SNCO's. On arrival at the base, the Top Graders receptionist saw on my RAF F1250 ID that I was a WO and directed me to the BOQ.

Never lived it down....mind you, excellent room, even had a fridge and TV.

Its one of those anomalies that will forever differentiate the NATO forces rank structure.

Personally I always thought being a WO gave you the best of both worlds.

Live with it buddy, remember....when you commission something you bring it in to service...when you warrant something its guaranteed!!

Incoming!!!!!!!!!!

:ok:

I thought it was the commission that was saluted.

Sounds like a one fingered salute would definately be the most appropriate kind in this particular situation.:rolleyes:

I think the "new" in the handle is a bit of a give away.......delusions of grandeur methinks:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

I would have difficulty saluting a US Army anything.

We hold Officer status so NCOs should salute. Why do you guys have a problem with this?

But we are not 'Enlisted' either. So we do hold Officer status. US enlisted ranks salute Warrant ranks. My question was why Brits have a problem with this.

I take it, chap, that you are a newly graduated helicopter pilot in the US Army?
If so, you are the US equivalent of British Army Corporal.
No I wouldn't salute a US Army WO1, and I don't have a problem with that. Sounds like you do though.

Perhaps the easiest way to explain it to you as follows:

1. British NCOs and airmen DO NOT salute British Warrant Officers

2. You are officially equivalent to a British Warrant Officer

Ergo,

British NCOs and airmen DO NOT salute you!

So get over it!!!

Wrong place to ask then...

:ok:

US Army Warrant Officers ARE NOT equivilent to Brit Warrants.

As a WO1, I'm not a Commissioned Officer but I am an appointed Officer (by Warrant) and a member of the O Club. On promotion to CW2, I will receive a Commission, so I'll be a Commissioned Warrant Officer.

And on saluting:

According to regulations, while in uniform, enlisted personnel should salute any Commissioned or Warrant Officer in any branch of the US Uniformed Services:

-US Army
-US Air Force
-US Navy
-US Marine Corps
-US Coast Guard
-US Public Health Service Commissioned Corps
-National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Corps

That would go for all other friendly forces too.

Again, why do Brits have a problem with this?

So why do you feel you need to treated as one and be saluted!.

Do you salute Civil Airline Pilots with the 'Rank' of Captain.?

Perhaps you Yanks also salute Railway Station Masters, Lift Attendants, Chauffers, and anyone else in a mickey mouse uniform.

It's 'cos we get confused with your rank badge. Looks very similar to a trainee in a UK McDonalds.:}

Fella, you sound like you are looking for salutes when most of us go out of our way to avoid throwing one up.

Same old, same old. If you ever have to ask other people how important you are, the answer is usually "not very", and if you ever have to use those immortal words "but my rank is equivalent to..." you a clearly sufffering from SPS (small penis syndrome). It's clearly not your fault you are in a state of limbo between the accepted social strata, have you ever thought of applying for a commission old chap?

If you really have a problem with it, the next time some Brits fail to salute you, go over to them, and in an officer like manner take them to task for it. You will get either:

a. A salute (very small chance, and they will only be taking the pi$$)
b. A fat lip (highly probable and warranted - no pun intended)
c. Howls of laughter (somewhat probable)

If anyone is interested come over to ARRSE and see the fun GI Joe has already given many people.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/index.p...t=22303#380464


Sid

Have a very good friend that I have worked with for the past 2 years who happens to be a US Army WO - Commissioned Warrant Officer 3. It took us all a few weeks to work out exactly what the hell that meant when he first started, but essentially he - and all other CWs (2-5) are classed as junior officers, and are treated as such. They do not salute fellow JOs on unit or call them sir and it's a system that works fine with us. However, by the time they get to CW 3/4/5 they have that much experience they are usually 'equivalent' to Sqn Ldr / Maj.

From working with the US Army in Telic, I found the biggest problem came when you had Brit WOs / Sgt Majs who quite rightly, are at the top of the tree as far as we are concerned, but this one particular WO was relegated to organising cleaning rosters by the US Army as they didn't understand the difference between Brit / US WO ranks. That one was very quickly sorted when said Brit WO (almost 20 yrs experience) had a rather loud quiet word with said US Army Sgt Maj (approx half that experience). At least there's one Sgt Maj in the US Army now knows the differece :\

The thing to remember is that the CW scheme is usually for tech specialists - pilots, intel etc and they go through their own Warrant Officer Candidate selection / school. Although they fit in somewhere in the JO bracket, think across to PA type specialists is about as close as I can come up with an equivalent status in the RAF.

WO-1,

First off to my British friends....W1's are commissioned officers in the United States Army. They are not enlisted men....they are not Sargeants or Corporals or in any way an NCO. They are officers.

If your military discipline and standards of conduct allow you to ignore rank of other military forces of the world....I would be a bit surprised to know that.

It is fine to banter and when done in good cheer....it is enjoyable.

As to understanding rank structure.....I would suggest the RAF has some explaining to do as well....and if anyone can understand the epaulet devices connoting rank as worn by the RAF...then he is a far better man than me....I merely assume the more rings, stripes, and braid one of the Crabs has on .....means more senior rank extant.

Saluting officers....only when we recognize them as being superior...however we pride ourselves (US Army Warrant Officers) as being soldiers....and thus saluting a superior officer (even if only by way of rank) is something we do out of tradition and military courtesy. Thus we will salute the British officers we run across....and can identify as officers.

To my WO-1 poster....no one is that stupid....even as a WO Jug....but it sure pulled some fish out of the depths! Which proves WO-1's are never as naive as they appear to be....remember...they used to be very senior enlisted men and as such bear watching....closely and constantly.:ok:

I particularly enjoyed this on arrse

"we're entitled to a salute. "

"And so is the Chief Scout, from all the other Scouts, but you won't see me chucking one up for him either. "
:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

Judging by some of the replies, I think you might have hit the nail on the head.

The problem with Brits saluting warrants is simple - we don't do it. We salute the commission.

How long did it take us to make friends with our old enemies?
How long will it take us to make friends with our old allies?

If you hold a commission you are an officer. If you don't you are not. It doesn't mean you are treated with any less respect or courtesy however.

Wing Commander sitting in his plush Whitehall office telephones Flt Lt in Germany about something or other.
Before conversation is completed he enquires of the Flt Lt, ''How is Warrant Officer X doing, is'nt it about time he applied for a commission?''.
Flt Lt relays this across the corridor to the WO, who replies, ''No thanks, I'll remain a professional!'' Which is repeated back down the line to Wingco in Whitehall.
The silence was deafening.
:) :) :)

Ok New WO1 this is the simple version. British Warrant officers Wo2 and WO1 and RAF WO s do not hold the Queens commision hence we don't get saluted. Nor do we want to be. The Officers hold a Queens comission and therefore get saluted. The Officer might be a grade A **** but you don't salute him or her as such, we salute the Queens commision. I know from having been there you Americans do salute your WO1. We don't and such as it is never will nor we we salute yours however as a mate of mine did a few years back when a "gunny" was ranting about not being saluted by British soldiers, he did. He did it morning noon and night and everytime he entered the room, left the room, saw the gunny everywhere......... careful what you wish for.

The Straight Poop....
 

http://www.usawoa.org/woheritage/Hist_of_Army_WO.htm

Says it all.....well some of it anyway!

ZH....the hook has been swallowed...and is set.....feel the tugging of the line yet?

So who forgot to Salute the WO....Why post here anyway, sounds as if you already knew the answer.

If we are supposed to salute you and yours, does that mean that yours should have been saluting ours......Strangely enough never seen it happen.

Never seen a USMC WO (that includes the USMC Senior WO) ask to be saluted...probably more important things to worry about.

Oh, so the correct form of address isn't 'oy mate, shift yer egg whisk we've got a real 'plane coming in' then? (UH1 v Chipmunk)

A US WO1 rank fell out of ma cornflakes box the other morning. I was most upset as I'd really hoped for something useful like a spinning top.

/flame on:cool:

Warrant Officers are NCOs, NOT officers. You hold a warrant, not a commision. Therefore you are a Non-Commisioned Officer!

See? WOs are just NCOs with delusions of grandeur! :ok: :E

New WO1,

I am sat here as a British Officer on a US Army camp laughing my nuts off, because you have just given me enough banter ammunition to last a week!:ok:

The US Army Master Sergeant (Brit WO2 equiv), sitting on the desk opposite, has had to endure me reading out your posts from here and 'ARRSE' for the last half an hour. His comments such as "Yeah, he ain't nut'in, he must be noo, 'cos they give them CW2 'like that', I think like within a year, or sum'in." says it all really!! :rolleyes:

As has been pointed out to you on 'ARRSE', you have achieved this rank straight from training, and have clarified how much credibility you have by the fact you will be promoted within a year on time served alone.

I work regularly with the aviation battalion here. Nearly all the pilots are CW2-5. I call them ‘Chief’, they call me ‘Sir’. We both respect what the other has achieved and neither have ideas above our station. I can’t wait to tell them about you, I am sure they will have some fantastic words of advice!:p

NFS

Rak....

Sorry ol' Bean....they are Commissioned Warrant Officers nowadays....much to the chagrin of we old bunch of Warrant Officers. How the US Army in their infinite wisdom could achieve such a situation is beyond me. However one must recall the Army....just like all...operative word here....all military organizations, is managed by Commissioned Officers (but run by NCO's and Warrant Officers).

Nowadays they get commissioned.....whereas in the good old days....we received a Warrant from the Secretary of the Army....and we were most happy with that arrangement. We quite happily fell into the nether regions...officers but not commissoned officers...but not enlisted either. We were satisfied to earn our respect vice obtaining same by means of a piece of paper....almost like buying a commission in some Regiment as you folk did.

The US Army required Warrant Officer Candidates to score higher on the Standardized Tests than they did for commissioned officers....thus again the management set up a relationship bound to fail. Those in charge were not always the sharpest knife in the drawer when compared to those being supervised. Ah...but the fun that caused!

Get yer facts straight before discharging yer weapon....makes for more accurate shooting....but then....are you a commissioned officer?



Need for Speed....ask about a thing called WOPA....see if it still exists? A covert (barely and not always) organization made up of Warrant Officers....full name....Warrant Officers Protective Association. Warrants banded together to "protect" one another....and the group....even if it meant taking a brother Warrant aside for some corrective counseling in private....private usually meaning out behind the hangar one evening late. Nowadays it would be known as "Wall to Wall Counseling".

SASless Bah ye no fun! I was jossing with him :P

And whats this? A little erk like me an occifer?! Why I'll have you know I work for a living! :} :E

Hi all
Wasn't there a story going about a WW 11 Senior British Officer, whilst in conversation with an Australian SO, alluded to the fact that the 'Stroilian soldiers weren't very good at saluting British Officers. The reply: "Oh,I'm sure if you wave, they'll wave back!"
regards
TDD

Out of interest, who signs US Commissions, the occupant of the whitehouse at the time, or some other sleazy politician?

If it is the current occupant; that gives proof that monkies can be taught to write. :}