Sea Jet
Suspicion breeds confidence
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,406
Likes: 15
From: Gibraltar
I hope Richard Beedal has no objection my linking to his pictures of the mockup of the RN JSF at the Paris airshow here.
Judging by the weapons deployed, long range airdefence suddenly becomes important again from 2014.
Judging by the weapons deployed, long range airdefence suddenly becomes important again from 2014.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: uk
Is it just me or does anyone else think that if (and i hope to god we do) have an uneventful few years post the Sea Jet with regards to the defence of the fleet that some thrusting budget holder nearing 2012 is not just going to turn around and say
"well we've managed without organic AD of the fleet for six years why do we need to spend all this money on a role that we haven't needed for the past six years?"
Surely that is the worst result that could come out of the loss of the bumper fun jet and it's current capabilities!!
"well we've managed without organic AD of the fleet for six years why do we need to spend all this money on a role that we haven't needed for the past six years?"
Surely that is the worst result that could come out of the loss of the bumper fun jet and it's current capabilities!!
Blame My Parrot
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
From: Somerdorset, UK
Junglie,
Fortunately in this regard, air defence is aguably not the main JSF acquisition driver; the balance is on the side of Strike. Hopefully, after the period you suggest, we will be sufficiently far down the investment road that cancellation would be v.difficult. That is not to say that the project will not be prone to 'kin bean-counters messing about with total numbers, support, weapons, kit upgrades etc. etc.
Navaleye,
Thanks for the phots - suggest you keep one or two in your back pocket for future caption competitions!!
VG
Fortunately in this regard, air defence is aguably not the main JSF acquisition driver; the balance is on the side of Strike. Hopefully, after the period you suggest, we will be sufficiently far down the investment road that cancellation would be v.difficult. That is not to say that the project will not be prone to 'kin bean-counters messing about with total numbers, support, weapons, kit upgrades etc. etc.
Navaleye,
Thanks for the phots - suggest you keep one or two in your back pocket for future caption competitions!!
VG
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: uk
VG
Agreed, i wasn't suggesting that it would affect the acquisition of JSF but could seriously affect numbers if air defence of the strike assets was seen to be an outdated concept due to the lack of it during the previous years.
Just suggesting that the bean counters will see a black and white picture, the outcome of which would be (even more) reduced numbers of the new jet.
J
Agreed, i wasn't suggesting that it would affect the acquisition of JSF but could seriously affect numbers if air defence of the strike assets was seen to be an outdated concept due to the lack of it during the previous years.
Just suggesting that the bean counters will see a black and white picture, the outcome of which would be (even more) reduced numbers of the new jet.
J
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,968
Likes: 102
From: Devon
Junglie
That is indeed a worry - which I have mentioned several times on this thread.
Exercise Neptune Warrior has come to an end, Illustrious was there - carrying both Sea Harriers and GR7s. Anyone know what they got up to?
That is indeed a worry - which I have mentioned several times on this thread.
Exercise Neptune Warrior has come to an end, Illustrious was there - carrying both Sea Harriers and GR7s. Anyone know what they got up to?
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
From: Devon, England
Four Rafales and Four Super Etendards should have attacked Culdrose yesterday afternoon twice. Supported by a French E-2C Hawkeye, four Hawks from Culdrose and an 849NAS Seaking ASAC7.
The frogs were flying from Charles De Gaulle on its way up to the Solent.
Did this attack actually happen or did the Frogs chicken out on what i think is their first attempt at flying the Rafale over the UK for training purposes?
Surprise me....
Gangrene need not reply...
The frogs were flying from Charles De Gaulle on its way up to the Solent.
Did this attack actually happen or did the Frogs chicken out on what i think is their first attempt at flying the Rafale over the UK for training purposes?
Surprise me....
Gangrene need not reply...
Suspicion breeds confidence
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,406
Likes: 15
From: Gibraltar
I'm sure the alert ground defences at Culdrose could have dealt with them easily 
If any of them managed to slip through however then they could always call in a flying Routemaster from east anglia to lend a hand 
If any of them managed to slip through however then they could always call in a flying Routemaster from east anglia to lend a hand
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 144
From: MARS
Just read in Jane's that the GR9 might still be in service up to 2020 to cover for possible late arrival of JCA.
By that stage will the RN have completely lost all it's corporate experience in using aircraft for Air Defence?
Will there be any pilots left who remember how to do a hook or conduct BVR engagements?
Will HMS QE still be in service by then or already scrapped in cutbacks?
By that stage will the RN have completely lost all it's corporate experience in using aircraft for Air Defence?
Will there be any pilots left who remember how to do a hook or conduct BVR engagements?
Will HMS QE still be in service by then or already scrapped in cutbacks?
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
From: Falmouth
Will there be any pilots left who remember how to do a hook or conduct BVR engagements?
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,968
Likes: 102
From: Devon
Will HMS QE still be in service by then or already scrapped in cutbacks?
A better question might will they have been ordered by then? Interesting that the First Sea Lord's recent speech on Trafalgar 200 mentions the future carriers.
Despite all that has changed in the past 200 years, two things remain constant. The first is that trade and exports remain fundamental to our national prosperity. 95% of that trade travels by sea, and our ability to project maritime power around the world – to protect trade routes and to provide a safe and stable world in which trade can flourish – remains vital. Our programme to build two new aircraft carriers and other ships to enhance our ability to project power – and hence stability - will ensure that we have the capability to do so in the future, and to continue to act as a force for good in the world.
As for the loss of skills caused by the capability gap it's not just aircrew, and flight deck crews, but everyone who might be involved in using air defence aircraft as a task group weapon system - including task group commanders and their staffs, the Captains and Cdr(Air) of CVF, and others.
Just noticed that if you make a mistake whilst typing capability you can easily end up with culpablity. How apt!
The MOD put this on their website the other day. Surely the loss of organic air defence reduces the utility of the UK/NL Amphibious Force?
A better question might will they have been ordered by then? Interesting that the First Sea Lord's recent speech on Trafalgar 200 mentions the future carriers.
Despite all that has changed in the past 200 years, two things remain constant. The first is that trade and exports remain fundamental to our national prosperity. 95% of that trade travels by sea, and our ability to project maritime power around the world – to protect trade routes and to provide a safe and stable world in which trade can flourish – remains vital. Our programme to build two new aircraft carriers and other ships to enhance our ability to project power – and hence stability - will ensure that we have the capability to do so in the future, and to continue to act as a force for good in the world.
As for the loss of skills caused by the capability gap it's not just aircrew, and flight deck crews, but everyone who might be involved in using air defence aircraft as a task group weapon system - including task group commanders and their staffs, the Captains and Cdr(Air) of CVF, and others.
Just noticed that if you make a mistake whilst typing capability you can easily end up with culpablity. How apt!
The MOD put this on their website the other day. Surely the loss of organic air defence reduces the utility of the UK/NL Amphibious Force?
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex
Widger -
I can't find a recent GR9 article in JDW; you weren't referring to Flight were you?
It did occur to me that it will be a bit odd to bring ASRAAM and a radar onto the GR9/9A fleet many years after ditching similar capabilities available on the FA2 today!
Moose
I can't find a recent GR9 article in JDW; you weren't referring to Flight were you?
It did occur to me that it will be a bit odd to bring ASRAAM and a radar onto the GR9/9A fleet many years after ditching similar capabilities available on the FA2 today!
Moose
Suspicion breeds confidence
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,406
Likes: 15
From: Gibraltar
The much discussed, but never seriously taken possibility of collaboration with the French on CVF/PA2 seems to be gathering momentum. We may indeed now be looking at a 3 ship collaborative venture. Somehow I just can't see Chirac convincing president Bliar that we should ditch the F35 and go with Rafale though.
AFAIK the ASRAAM integration on the GR9 has been binned and the radar option was a non starter to begin with.
AFAIK the ASRAAM integration on the GR9 has been binned and the radar option was a non starter to begin with.
Last edited by Navaleye; 25th June 2005 at 01:17.
