More fun & games in the Magic Kingdom

[Echo 5]

NorthernSID

Believe me - BWOS management neither have nor recognise any
sort of principle although I suppose there may be the (very) odd exception.

[soddim]

According to the BBC article linked below they just got some of the bar stewards:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/mi...st/3041994.stm

No, not BWoS management but some of the customers kids.

[Echo 5]

Just to whet the appetite of you guys returning from your hols in a few days. There is a very interesting biography on page 7 of the June edition of Majalis.

[PICKS135]

Had an e-mail from a squipper mate who's just quit the kingdom [along with a few others ]. Then picked up the local paper [St Andrews Citizen ] to find an advert for BWOS in Saudi. Cant remember BWOS EVER advertising in 'the whinger' before .
Went to the url mentioned [ www.projectay.co.uk ]
and found the following

Event
Project AY Roadshow 2003 - St Andrews

Date
21 July 2003


Location
St Andrews, Rusacks Hotel

Start Time
1930


Agenda
BAE SYSTEMS are now recruiting for current and future vacancies in support of Project Al Yamamah in Saudi Arabia.

Come along with your partner to a Roadshow near you to discover how to earn a high salary, free of tax, as part of the Al Yamamaha Project, Britain¡¦s largest export agreement to date.

You will be assisting the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) to become self-sufficient. As prime contractor, our responsibility covers the provision of aircraft equipment, support services and an infrastructure involving major civil engineering projects.

We offer excellent compensation and benefits package to include:-

„X Competitive Salary ¡V Tax Free
„X Generous Leave & Flight Entitlement
„X Flexible Ticketing process
„X Free Food
„X Rent Free Accommodation
„X Two Year Open Ended Contract
„X Excellent Leisure & Recreational Facilities
„X Free Medical Care in Saudi Arabia
„X Pension Scheme
„X Re-deployment opportunities on completion of contract
„X Severance payments on completion of contract
„X Discounted car purchase scheme in United Kingdom

Opportunities available:-

„X Qualified Flying Instructors (QFI) (Tornado, PC9, Hawk, Cessna)
„X Qualified Navigation Instructor (QNI)(Tornado Tour Preferred)

„X Aircrew Ground Instructors

„X Range Safety Officers

„X Aircraft Technicians (Tornado, PC9, Hawk, Cessna)
(Airframe, Engine, Avionics, Electrical, Radar, Weapons, Egress & Ground Equipment Specialists)

„X Metrology Engineers & Calibration Technicians

„X Technical Instructors

Our Roadshow dates across the UK are as follows :

July 21/22 ¡V St Andrews, Rusacks Hotel
July 23/24 - Elgin, Mansion House
July 28 - Leeming, The Lodge at Leeming Bar
July 29 - Catterick, Quality Hotel, Scotch Corner
July 30 - Lincoln, The Bentley Hotel & Leisure Club
Aug 04 ¡V Marham, The George at Swaffham
Aug 05 ¡V Coltishall, Marriott Sprowston, Manor Hotel
Aug 11/13 ¡V Cardiff, Copthorne
Aug 18 ¡V Glasgow, The Holiday Inn
Aug 19 ¡V Newcastle, Newcastle United Football Ground
Aug 20 ¡V Manchester, De Vere (Cheadle)
Aug 21 ¡V Cosford, Albrighton Hall Hotel, Shrewsbury
Aug 27 ¡V Birmingham, Ramada Jarvis, Solihull

[Ally Minium]

If you read the article in the link, some of the BAE Saudi management could be heading for a long and healthy retirement!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...T17/Health/Idx

[Echo 5]

Ally Minium.

Does this mean that we should refrain from using the term
w@&%^r in relation to said management lest it be misconstrued as being seen to be acceptable ?

[soddim]

Not sure BWoS management have the co-ordination to avoid prostrate cancer that way!

[LawrenceOfArabia]

Having spent sometime in the Air Force, and in the KSA I have a healthy respect for BWOS Air Crew

It is all too easy to criticise BWOS and the RSAF, I wonder how many of the in kingdom contributors to this forum have resigned or are still collecting their pay each month despite their personal concerns. If not, surely they should be questioning their integrity whilst scrutinising others?

At the end of the day we have all signed a contract, detailing terms and conditions as well salary. We get paid what the market dictates, and what the company thinks we are worth. It is purely a personal decision as to whether we sign or not. If at the end of the day we are not happy, we can hand in our notice and hopefully move to a better place in our life.

It would appear that besides having 20:20 vision, some of the BWOS pilots in the KSA have 20:20 hindsight as well.

[Echo 5]

Lawrence.

Your post may have passed without comment had you not used the terms "BWoS " and "Integrity" in the same paragraph.
I need only mention "DQ Accommodation" and "airline tickets" to demonstrate a certain lack of integrity (if of course the allegations are true).
Nuff said ?

[Min Drag]

Lawrence,

"Having spent sometime in the Air Force and in KSA I have a healthy respect for BWOS Air Crew"

Presuming you mean the Royal Air Force, I am at least as equally qualified as you to pass comment here.

I think I can safely deduce from the tone and content of your post that you are not aircrew and quite possibly BWOS Management - if I am mistaken I sincerely apologise for the slander.

If BWOS Management were gifted with the same 20:20 vision you've credited pilots with, then maybe they wouldn't end up in the pickle they so regularly do. If they had the ability to analyse the results of their "management" with the 20:20 hindsight us pilots apparently also have, then maybe they'd learn from their mistakes.

At the end of the day, I wasn't happy, I handed in my notice and moved onto a better place in my life. That advice I have to say is absolutely sound, unfortunately because that is the message being passed to the pilots that is exactly what they are doing - in substantial numbers!!

Min Drag

PS Wasn't Lawrence of Arabia a raving bandit?

[Lu Zuckerman]

Deja Vu all over again.

I spent three years as a department manager with Bell Helicopter International in Iran. This program to train mechanics and pilots for the Imperial Iranian Army Aviation was very poorly run and never met with any manner of success. It sounds very similar to the Bwos management you guys speak of in your posts. For the unknowledgeable on the forum what does Bwos stand for?

In the case of our program it was based on a report prepared by a US Army Colonel who spent several weeks in Iran. He saw young boys working next to their fathers in the bazaars forming metal into very beautiful plates and serving trays and from that he deduced that Iranian men and boys had an inherent mechanical ability and could be easily trained as mechanics. It was his recommendation that with eight weeks of English training the young men could be streamed into the schools for the various mechanical and electrical skills. The training would consist of eight weeks of basic mechanic training (How to use tools) and ten weeks of skills training and with that they would be turned loose on a helicopter.

The top management was drawn from the military retired ranks starting with the president (retired general) to division managers (retired colonels) and none of them had any experience in management of a turnkey training program. They tried to run it as if everybody (civilians) was in the US Army. They set up the training syllabi as if they were training American boys (who mostly do have good mechanical skills).

The English training was expanded to forty-two weeks and the instructors instead of teaching English as a second language spent most of their time teaching the nomenclature of helicopter components. When the student arrived at the training school they had minimal English skills and the technical instructors had to teach English.

The pilot training was equally as screwed up and that is a story unto itself. One other strange thing. Most of the mechanics were high school graduates and the pilots were not.

[soddim]

BWoS is the more widely used name on this forum for BAE Systems (formerly British Aerospace) and stands for British Waste of Space.

[BEagle]

....and it's run by 't Bungling Baron Waste o' Space - a fictional Northener with the management and inter-personal skills of a Victorian mill owner who thinks that the government of the day will always bail him out of his blundering incomptetence.


He is only fictional, isn't he?

[LawrenceOfArabia]

Min Drag, no offense taken I don't consider being identified as non-aircrew and BWOS Management as being slanderous....no more than being BWOS Aircrew and non-management.

Naturally I would agree with your comments regarding the ability to learn from ones mistakes, something I hope we all do. Having read all of the comments relating to this string, I can't help wondering if we expect too much and find it too easy to level criticism after the fact at the "Management".

For instance

Earlier comments regarding the company's "unreasonable" insistence that people should work their period of notice post the bombings, prior to terminating with full benefits. Yet, it is feasible for us to be on block leave for several weeks during that period of notice and terminate soon afterwards.

Swings and round abouts I would think....do you not agree?

Yet on the other hand, the tangible improvements made in physical security are considerable. Yet I haven't seen any of the regular contributors to this forum come on line and give credit where credit is due. Given the "lag" in response in the KSA has the "Management" performed badly in this regard? I for one feel safer than I did before.

As for the rumors regarding a certain Execs ticketing, there is only one way to find out...and that is to ask if you are that concerned. As for the DQ accomdation I was told that this was to facilitate the need to entertain the customer etc. I think you will agree that if you take that on face value, you will concur that this is how "things" are done not only in the KSA but the rest of the business world?

We all agree that the security situation in the KSA has changed considerably, causing individuals to reconsider their personal motivation as to why they are in the KSA. It is not only Aircrew that are leaving, the whole work force have been affected. I do think however, it is human nature to blame those that they see as being responsible. It is easier than admitting, "I don't think it is worth it anymore. I have achieved my personal milestones and therefore I am leaving." Having said that, I would urge anyone that is leaving because an Exec has moved to the DQ for security reasons, or is rumored to be bucking the "Travel Policy" to actually detail their reason for terminating on their paperwork?

Regarding your final thoughts about Lawrence. Lawrence is described as a matter of record as a man of integrity, if somewhat flaky caught up in a bigger situation beyond his control. He sort nothing more than to be left alone. Something evident in his "The Mint" writings, centered on his experiences as an "anonymous recruit" in the ranks of the RAF. I would recommend you read the above.

One a closing note Min Drag, I wish you well in your future endeavors.

[soddim]

It is interesting to see some defence of BWoS in-kingdom management on this thread but I find it hard to have any sympathy for their current employee retention problems. Whilst they might have made some good management decisions during the recent difficulties they are only now reaping what their bad management practices sowed over the past ten years or so.

Their widespread use of the expression "if you don't like it, leave" and full support for a corrupt customer in any dispute over a particular employee that invariably led to the employee's dismissal or early departure has resulted in a workforce with no trust in management. Add to that a management that made no attempt to measure the quality of work of their employees and promoted the less able and you have a disaster waiting to happen.

I hope the contract is taken from them and awarded to another more competent UK company.

[Double Hush]

With 'Saudisation' a major aim of the Saudi ruling family, who's to say that it will be a UK company that will get the contract?

[OVERTALK]

Reference:
"Now about those holes in the Strikemaster wing "Captain"...How low were you????

There is both a video and some (separately taken) still shots in existence showing the moment that they blew the tank - with the Strikemaster directly just short of the overhead (at about 25 to 40ft height). No doubt they were after realism and they certainly got it.

The Stills were blown up and placed on the walls of the Saudi O's Mess in Riyadh. I saw them there at a grad function - but next time I went (to the next function - about six months later) they'd been taken down. Perhaps they'd been told that, despite beingspectacular, they exhibited something beyond stupidity.

[saudipc-9]

And yet another shooting

This afternoon a BAe employee was shot at while driving a company car. His car was hit twice but luckily he was not injured in the attack.
No doubt this will be considered another "isolated incident" by BWoS and again we will be warned with the usual BS of... vary your routes, report any incidents.. Blah Blah Blah.... Meanwhile our chief project officer "MM" sits hiding on the Diplomatic Quarter and wearing his personnel body armour. Also understand he refuses to fly Saudia
LoA,
Why is it that "MM"has not come out to defend himself as his living quarters, body armour and travel habits? To entertain...sorry pull my other leg, it plays jingle bells.
Anyone who says that people who are leaving are "disloyal" deserves all the **** that people throw his way.
As for the security of the compounds! Yes it is much better than it was, which tells me it should have been this way years ago. Why did it take a major attack to change what was crap security before? Oh yes and my wife loves being leered at by the Saudi guards at the gate (hats on sideways, shirts untucked.. a real deterrent)....NOT.
Cannot wait to see what happens next

[Capt Mullet]

Late mail from KSA, another drive by shooting. A BWoS employee had two neat holes (four if you count the exits) put in his company car on the ring road by an unknown assailant. He is now 'assisting police in their enquiries'. I do hope we see him again.

I must agree with Larry in some respects. It is a bit of a sport to be critical of the management however it can be truely frustrating to be victims of their continually reactive decision making. I can understand that they are still trying to feed of the carcass. But if they loyalty is so clearly to a corrupt customer, don't be surprised when the employees don't, 'take one for the team' when asked to suck it up and make it work.

There are no complaints about the security that has been installed was obviously done without counting the cost. I would like to think it was always planned (maybe by the first class, Head of Security?), but somehow I an't shake the nagging feeling that it came from suggestions from families in the town hall meetings.

[Bear 555]

Does the 'first class security system' include the CCTV at Stalag Luft Izdihar where the cabling was installed on the outside of the perimiter??

Or perhaps it is the truly professional Guard Force who are, at best, enthusiastically incompetent and at worst downright offensive??

Bear