UK Firemen's Strike
Thread Starter
UK Firemen's Strike
I would like to wish all the UK military personnel, of whatever Service/Rank/Trade or Sex, who will be providing cover during the coming Firemen's strike, the best of luck in the weeks to come. Look after yourselves boys and girls, cover each others backs, and know your limitations!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 591
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll second that.
It also serves as a timely reminder that certain elements will not be playing by Marquis of Queensbury Rules, especially when public sympathy for their 'cause' begins to wane. So, the less said about the deployment of personnel and resources for this Op, the better.
It also serves as a timely reminder that certain elements will not be playing by Marquis of Queensbury Rules, especially when public sympathy for their 'cause' begins to wane. So, the less said about the deployment of personnel and resources for this Op, the better.
Firemen earn £21k for 2 x 12 hour day shifts followed by 2x 12 hour night sleeping shifts followed by 4 days off.
Most squaddies earn £13k for long hours in uncomfortable conditions prepared to give their life for Queen and Country.
I suspect a lot of squaddies who serve on Op Fresco may well think of a change in career direction if it goes ahead.
Most squaddies earn £13k for long hours in uncomfortable conditions prepared to give their life for Queen and Country.
I suspect a lot of squaddies who serve on Op Fresco may well think of a change in career direction if it goes ahead.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: near the squirrel sanctuary
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do think that asking for 40% was a little over ambitious, but I wouldn't go into a burning building ( whilst having bricks throen at me by the viewing public ) for the money I'm getting now, never mind £21k.... unless you ordered me, Sir!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with the strike but understand the stress it is putting on the military. I think they should be allowed to strike, their profession is still classed as unskilled hence the low wage…surely unskilled tasks are not that important that they should not be allowed to strike…
A fire at No.10 might focus the government’s mind..
A fire at No.10 might focus the government’s mind..
ZH844 - your comment regarding a 'fire at No 10' could well be viewed as a threat. Not a good idea.
I will refrain from comment on the firemen's strike bar pointing out that, since the last one 25 years ago:
1. The skills required to work with modern fire hazards and modern equipment have increased.
2. Society in general is far more litigious and cuddly-wuddly Health and Safety regulated than it was in 1977.
3. The number of serving personnel in the Armed Forces has decreased enormously.
4. The number of OoA operations faced by the Armed Forces has increased substantially.
5. The Green Godesses haven't got any younger.
I will refrain from comment on the firemen's strike bar pointing out that, since the last one 25 years ago:
1. The skills required to work with modern fire hazards and modern equipment have increased.
2. Society in general is far more litigious and cuddly-wuddly Health and Safety regulated than it was in 1977.
3. The number of serving personnel in the Armed Forces has decreased enormously.
4. The number of OoA operations faced by the Armed Forces has increased substantially.
5. The Green Godesses haven't got any younger.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 591
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems the firefighters want all the financial benefits of 'professional' standing, whilst retaining all the advantages of 'manual worker' status.
They can't have their cake and eat it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/firefighte...816447,00.html
They can't have their cake and eat it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/firefighte...816447,00.html
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 721
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed, Scud. You cannot be a "professional" and strike. If you strike you are a "worker" - (or a shirker if you are in the essential public services, with a secure job and pension to look forward to).
Firemen's wages seem very competitive compared with paramedics, nurses and the armed services. A 40% hike would be outrageous. Only MPs get that sort of a rise.
Firemen's wages seem very competitive compared with paramedics, nurses and the armed services. A 40% hike would be outrageous. Only MPs get that sort of a rise.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Age: 84
Posts: 897
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beagle to the point;as usual!
A further comment on the Green Godess and Health and Safety issues is that the said vehicle was never designed to attend fires as a first attendance machine! It meets none of the current structural safety requirements of modern vehicles. It would not, in fact, be allowed to be used as a front-line vehicle by any fire service anywhere, but it's OK to allow untrained and inexperienced servicemen and women to put their necks on the line.
The Godess is a remnant of the old Civil Defence structure and is a shifter of water in a reticulation sense rather than a high pressure pumper. The technology is steam-age by comparison. It is slow, unstable, and out of date.
A further comment on the Green Godess and Health and Safety issues is that the said vehicle was never designed to attend fires as a first attendance machine! It meets none of the current structural safety requirements of modern vehicles. It would not, in fact, be allowed to be used as a front-line vehicle by any fire service anywhere, but it's OK to allow untrained and inexperienced servicemen and women to put their necks on the line.
The Godess is a remnant of the old Civil Defence structure and is a shifter of water in a reticulation sense rather than a high pressure pumper. The technology is steam-age by comparison. It is slow, unstable, and out of date.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First, I have no doubt that the Firemen deserve a pay rise, their wages are meagre for the job they do.
Second though, many soldiers, sailors and airmen, as already pointed out, do highly skilled jobs in very trying and challenging circumstances, risk their lives and also get paid a pittance..
My point, well the Firemen know the Armed Forces will end up bailing them out (if the service that will be provided indeed can bail out the strikers) and yet they pick Christmas to strike. Not that there would ever be a good time but they clearly don't give a damn about the young men and women who are losing out through no fault of their own. I would like to think they could see the knock on effects of this strike.
To re-itterate, good luck to all taking part in this vital action and take care.
Second though, many soldiers, sailors and airmen, as already pointed out, do highly skilled jobs in very trying and challenging circumstances, risk their lives and also get paid a pittance..
My point, well the Firemen know the Armed Forces will end up bailing them out (if the service that will be provided indeed can bail out the strikers) and yet they pick Christmas to strike. Not that there would ever be a good time but they clearly don't give a damn about the young men and women who are losing out through no fault of their own. I would like to think they could see the knock on effects of this strike.
To re-itterate, good luck to all taking part in this vital action and take care.
It is interesting that 2x Jags and his cronies think that the strike is unacceptable, but they will not allow the Fresco people to cross Picket Lines. The Fire appliances do not belong to the Firemen, but to the local taxpayers.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 2nd biggest country in world
Age: 55
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wish all those on this forthcoming operation a safe and healthy time. Dangerous times are ahead and I hope that no one loses any loved ones, public or military.
I find it strange that firefighters are not classed as professionals and it is disgusting the amount of pay that they get at present. I hope that they do get awarded the pay rise that they quite rightly deserve. Firefighters do more than lift heavy weights and put out fires.
I left the UK to pastures new in Canada and it is great to see that here they pay firefighters, paramedics (of which I am one here (thank you RAF for my Paramedic Training)) and all medical fields earn a lot more money. Even with the present exchange rate! (and petrol is only 72 cents litre = 28 pence!( We are all held in greater esteem than would be back in blighty.
If firefighters are worth 30k you are worth 60k.... how do you work that one out? Is that to pay for your ego about being a pilot... they save lives day to day with a lot more risk ... check the stats.
I find it strange that firefighters are not classed as professionals and it is disgusting the amount of pay that they get at present. I hope that they do get awarded the pay rise that they quite rightly deserve. Firefighters do more than lift heavy weights and put out fires.
I left the UK to pastures new in Canada and it is great to see that here they pay firefighters, paramedics (of which I am one here (thank you RAF for my Paramedic Training
)) and all medical fields earn a lot more money. Even with the present exchange rate! (and petrol is only 72 cents litre = 28 pence!( We are all held in greater esteem than would be back in blighty.If firefighters are worth 30k you are worth 60k.... how do you work that one out? Is that to pay for your ego about being a pilot... they save lives day to day
with a lot more risk ... check the stats.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Shefford, Beds, UK
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The firemen may be classed as unskilled but they were offered the opportunity to change that by the Bain inquiry - but they turned it down.
Their 40% bid was deemed excessive by the employers and they were offered arbitration to validate it - but they turned it down.
What little sympathy I had for them has waned significantly since watching some of our guys complete their 'training' and go and stand in for them using equipment that would not be out of place in the average museum. The Union are now showing ‘concern’ over the safe operation of the country while they are on strike and encouraging other sectors to stop work in the interests of health and safety – what cynical hypocrisy. If the Union believes that they can encourage secondary action (masked by H&S concerns) and maintain public support they are sadly mistaken.
For God’s sake guys look after yourself, your life is not worth their pay rise.
Their 40% bid was deemed excessive by the employers and they were offered arbitration to validate it - but they turned it down.
What little sympathy I had for them has waned significantly since watching some of our guys complete their 'training' and go and stand in for them using equipment that would not be out of place in the average museum. The Union are now showing ‘concern’ over the safe operation of the country while they are on strike and encouraging other sectors to stop work in the interests of health and safety – what cynical hypocrisy. If the Union believes that they can encourage secondary action (masked by H&S concerns) and maintain public support they are sadly mistaken.
For God’s sake guys look after yourself, your life is not worth their pay rise.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lincs
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While I agree that the firemen are deserving of a pay rise for their duties, I am getting more and more angry with their excessive and ludicrous claims of a 40% pay rise. If they win, who next? The nurses, Doctors, Teachers etc.
What people forget is that any pay rise will be met by the public purse. So next time a fireman asks you to sign a petition for a 40% rise, ask him where he thinks the money will come from. Ultimately us.
Just hope that Tony and his cronies remember the Operations that the Armed Forces have carried out on his behalf over his latest term in office, when it come to our pay rise. I doubt very much he will remember, as we do not have any union or assosiation who will make waves for him, just a few brown nosers at the top who think of their own needs, rather than those of the many.
What people forget is that any pay rise will be met by the public purse. So next time a fireman asks you to sign a petition for a 40% rise, ask him where he thinks the money will come from. Ultimately us.
Just hope that Tony and his cronies remember the Operations that the Armed Forces have carried out on his behalf over his latest term in office, when it come to our pay rise. I doubt very much he will remember, as we do not have any union or assosiation who will make waves for him, just a few brown nosers at the top who think of their own needs, rather than those of the many.
The firefighters I live near to do not save lives day to day. The notion that every time they get a shout they emerge from the burning building with flames licking round their boots and smoke billowing from over their shoulders while carrying a baby is more b@ll@cks than I can stomach.
The guys I know confess readily that most of the 50% of the time they do have to go to work is spent deciding whose turn it is to make the curry or what film to watch. The majority of shouts they get are to respond to chip pans and garden rubbish. All bar one of them have second jobs.
Everyone has the right to ask for more pay. What NO-ONE has is the right to use human life as a bartering point. People WILL die as a result of this dispute who otherwise could have been saved by the people we (the country) have trained. The firemen are going to KILL PEOPLE over a pay-claim. That is INDEFENSIBLE in my opinion.
I won't be able to post for a while as my keyboard is melting under my anger, and the only way I can stop the flames from speading is to throw it out the window 'cos I'm not having a feckin' fire-prat come into my house while I have the choice. Public support? What planet are they on?
The guys I know confess readily that most of the 50% of the time they do have to go to work is spent deciding whose turn it is to make the curry or what film to watch. The majority of shouts they get are to respond to chip pans and garden rubbish. All bar one of them have second jobs.
Everyone has the right to ask for more pay. What NO-ONE has is the right to use human life as a bartering point. People WILL die as a result of this dispute who otherwise could have been saved by the people we (the country) have trained. The firemen are going to KILL PEOPLE over a pay-claim. That is INDEFENSIBLE in my opinion.
I won't be able to post for a while as my keyboard is melting under my anger, and the only way I can stop the flames from speading is to throw it out the window 'cos I'm not having a feckin' fire-prat come into my house while I have the choice. Public support? What planet are they on?
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAPS LOCK looks to be melting already, mate! Best run before the whole room goes up! Whoomph!
Interesting that no-one has raised the subject of MP's granting themselves a similar pay raise not so long ago......How different the media coverage was then.
Interesting that no-one has raised the subject of MP's granting themselves a similar pay raise not so long ago......How different the media coverage was then.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The MPs have to have their pay rise because if they turned themselves down (?) and went on strike then the military would have to be called in to run the country...........Theres a scary thought!