Duty Travel on Civvy Aircraft
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duty Travel on Civvy Aircraft
I am told by the barrackroom lawyer that QR Somethin' & JSP Somethin' else state that if I'm expected to work soon after landing I'm entitled to Business Class travel.
But the people who tick the boxes have been told by the budget people that everyone will go cattle class!
And I'm on about Groundcrew Recovery teams as well as Aircrew here.
Has this one been done before?
But the people who tick the boxes have been told by the budget people that everyone will go cattle class!
And I'm on about Groundcrew Recovery teams as well as Aircrew here.
Has this one been done before?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Used to get club class from blighty to norway when the journey started in NI. Think it had something to do with journey length though, nothing to do with flying after or rank....
Of course, entitled really means only if the budget man can afford it. It is in QRs somewhere though, I think 3 hours might be the cut.
One final point, some Duty is jollies or expeds when you really cut down to it and so although the service pays, if it's exped funds they wont stretch that far.
You could of course travel superior class on HM AT.....
Of course, entitled really means only if the budget man can afford it. It is in QRs somewhere though, I think 3 hours might be the cut.
One final point, some Duty is jollies or expeds when you really cut down to it and so although the service pays, if it's exped funds they wont stretch that far.
You could of course travel superior class on HM AT.....
The QR is quite specific about entitlement - but only if the bean counters can afford it.
Then there was the Air Commodore Utter Ar$e who once insisted that, rather than all his team going Business Class to the USA, he would go First and they would go Cattle....... The same idiot who once scared me fartless by flying unbriefed over Treaddur Bay at about 10 ft a.m.s.l in a Gnat when I went along for a SCT trip at Valley.
For those who might wonder, seat pitch in the ancient VC10 is never less than 34", except in the K4 which has 36". Whereas Virgin is 31"........... But we don't have the same cabin service, I guess.
Then there was the Air Commodore Utter Ar$e who once insisted that, rather than all his team going Business Class to the USA, he would go First and they would go Cattle....... The same idiot who once scared me fartless by flying unbriefed over Treaddur Bay at about 10 ft a.m.s.l in a Gnat when I went along for a SCT trip at Valley.
For those who might wonder, seat pitch in the ancient VC10 is never less than 34", except in the K4 which has 36". Whereas Virgin is 31"........... But we don't have the same cabin service, I guess.
Last edited by BEagle; 5th Sep 2002 at 06:35.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep, it's all superceded in the QR by that magical phrase "at the budget holders discretion"
Cattle class it is then
Could be worse, you could fly Easy Wokka and be sat on the cabin floor! "Ignorant crewmen, don't they realise I'm a 2nd Lt, dammit!"
And Beags, Virgin have hunted high and low for pi$$ weak orange squash, unripe fruit and those floppy cardboard boxes. Just don't come up to scratch do they?!
Breakfast in Paris
Lunch in New York
Bags in Oxfordshire
Cattle class it is then
Could be worse, you could fly Easy Wokka and be sat on the cabin floor! "Ignorant crewmen, don't they realise I'm a 2nd Lt, dammit!"
And Beags, Virgin have hunted high and low for pi$$ weak orange squash, unripe fruit and those floppy cardboard boxes. Just don't come up to scratch do they?!
Breakfast in Paris
Lunch in New York
Bags in Oxfordshire
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It, unfortunately, does, rightly or wrongly, come down to budgets from the experiences I have had.
If you want to fly Club all the time though, become a PJI...they never seem to get budget problems.
If you want to fly Club all the time though, become a PJI...they never seem to get budget problems.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oxfordshire / Wiltshire
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Used to that you were entitled to Club Class if there were no RAF seats or flights available.. Also the flight had to be over 2 1/2 hours.
But now with budget holders etc - its down to you to see if you can convince them that you need to travel Club class (and if they can afford it) or wait for a service flight if there is one. Time away from a desk is not a valid reason! (Can't remember which JSP it comes from . . . JSP327??)
Have seen flights to Gib where the Stn Cdr was in cattle class but an RN AB was in Club class as all the charter seats had been filled by the time he was booked. (UK - GIB schedueled time 2 hrs 40 mins)
But now with budget holders etc - its down to you to see if you can convince them that you need to travel Club class (and if they can afford it) or wait for a service flight if there is one. Time away from a desk is not a valid reason! (Can't remember which JSP it comes from . . . JSP327??)
Have seen flights to Gib where the Stn Cdr was in cattle class but an RN AB was in Club class as all the charter seats had been filled by the time he was booked. (UK - GIB schedueled time 2 hrs 40 mins)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Too close to Pompey
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I worked for a 2* (DGICS) whose staff had to fly to the USA regularly. Needless to say his budget couldn't afford Club Class, but at least he had the good manners to fly cattle like the rest of us and he was 6'4" to boot.
But it was galling to walk past other folk from other HQs who were sitting up front.
But it was galling to walk past other folk from other HQs who were sitting up front.
How times have changed. I managed to travel First class on the sleeper from Gutersloh to St Moritz to take part in a Bobsleigh competition for the RAF. Those were the days in the mid 70s when all officers travelled First class in Germany- ah nostalgia!!
HF
HF
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Managed to get myself invited to Butterworth a few years ago as a lecturer on the IADS course. The boss agreed I could go, but only if I travelled economy. No brainer really.
Nice 3 weeks in the hotel in Penang with free beer at happy hour every day in the executive lounge (and a side trip to Singapore.)
Nice 3 weeks in the hotel in Penang with free beer at happy hour every day in the executive lounge (and a side trip to Singapore.)
Don't think it was just confined to Germany - seem to recall that Officers always used to travel first class on British Rail - provided they were on duty/in uniform. Same for ATCOs employed by the Civil Aviation Authority at one time - civil service throw back?
Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be!
Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: preston
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
duty travel
i flew back from goose 12 years ago in business class, and i was an sac at the time! i was told by both movers and gen office that if you are travelling overnight on duty that you must travel in a first class sleeper by train and business class by air. there were no first class passengers so i got seat 1a, i could get used to that!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's the Punchline
Thanks for the nostalgia chaps. The tale below is why the subject came up.
It ain't News of the World material, and even if it was, I don't care, 'cos it happened, and I was there.
This is the scene -
One broken down transport aircraft on the East Coast of the North American continent, Operating crew, students, screens, GE, SVC, muppets and 2 passengers - Total of 25 people in a posh hotel.
The 2 man recovery team turn up with the spares, cattle class via another destination. Its 15 hours since their alarms went off and they work for a further 6 hours on our broken aircraft. In fact one of them was not properly rested from part of the previous night's shift!
Anyone familiar with GASO'S will know who carries the can when the accident happens.
Anyway, the promised punchline:-
While we were broken down, we were spending 2 Group's budget! But the recovery team's tickets came from the Station budget. So the Station didn’t care if we stayed an extra day or so, as long as they didn’t have to pay.
Make that 27 people in a posh hotel.
I believe its called ‘Spending a Fiver to save a Penny’
It ain't News of the World material, and even if it was, I don't care, 'cos it happened, and I was there.
This is the scene -
One broken down transport aircraft on the East Coast of the North American continent, Operating crew, students, screens, GE, SVC, muppets and 2 passengers - Total of 25 people in a posh hotel.
The 2 man recovery team turn up with the spares, cattle class via another destination. Its 15 hours since their alarms went off and they work for a further 6 hours on our broken aircraft. In fact one of them was not properly rested from part of the previous night's shift!
Anyone familiar with GASO'S will know who carries the can when the accident happens.
Anyway, the promised punchline:-
While we were broken down, we were spending 2 Group's budget! But the recovery team's tickets came from the Station budget. So the Station didn’t care if we stayed an extra day or so, as long as they didn’t have to pay.
Make that 27 people in a posh hotel.
I believe its called ‘Spending a Fiver to save a Penny’
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Brize
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cattle/Club First Class travel entitlement is laid down in JSP 327. Well it was in the old one till the Brown Jobs/ Movers at Andover re wrote it (with nice purpley binder) and you can hardly find anything in it now.
It is also governed by some QR which I dont know as I have a life! However as previous people have mentioned, its now been changed to authorize at Budget holders discretion, therefore, we all go cattle class!!
If you can find an argument to justify Club/ First, then good luck to you.
If you need to get a hold of a copy, speak to a friendly, helpful ALM, or you could always ask a 'M*V*R'!
It is also governed by some QR which I dont know as I have a life! However as previous people have mentioned, its now been changed to authorize at Budget holders discretion, therefore, we all go cattle class!!
If you can find an argument to justify Club/ First, then good luck to you.
If you need to get a hold of a copy, speak to a friendly, helpful ALM, or you could always ask a 'M*V*R'!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heard recently that if you were to divert and get the train home you had to go by taxi and 1st Class (something about the helmet and kit).
Is it still the case Senior Os get 1st Class rail warrants?
Is it still the case Senior Os get 1st Class rail warrants?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: England
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try the RAF Portal, if you have it, 'RAF Pubs Library JSP', under the admin bit find Method & Class of Tavel, it spells it out refering to AP 3392, Vol 2, Ch16, Leaflet 1602 (AL 166, Jul 99)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: De Cymru
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Army officers with Field Officer rank (Major and above) can still get 1st class rail warrants for duty travel, and hire car / taxi fare if no duty transport available.
I don't know what the position is for SNCOs.
I don't know what the position is for SNCOs.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: England
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I when I was on the RAF's Premier Air Transport Squadron - which now does tanking as well and still better than the self proclaimed Premier Tanker Squadron, I used to carry a copy of QR 2505. Now please tell me if I'm wrong here but doesn't a QR beat any other publication? Well if you go to
www.publications.raf.r.mil.uk/live/qrs/ch35.htm
you will find the following:
2505. Class of Travel
(4) By Civil Airline. Civil airlines operate a rough three tier class structure. Although not all classes may be available on each flight, the three classes fall into the folowing broadly defined bands:
Class 1 - First
Class 2 - Club, Executive, Business or Empress Club
Class 3 - Economy or Tourist
Where travel by civil airlines at public expense is authorised, it is to be the most economical within the class as follows:
(a) Class 1 and 3 available on aircraft. Up to 2 1/2 hours flying time - all personnel travel Class 3. over 2 1/2 hours flying time - AVM and above Class 1, all others Class 3
(b) Class 2 and 3 available on aircraft. Up to 2 1/2 hours flying time - AVM and above Class 2, all others Class 3. Over 2 1/2 hours flying time all personnel travel Class 2.
(c) All Classes available. Up to 2 1/2 hours flying time AVM and above Class 2, all others Class 3. Over 2 1/2 hours flying time ACM and above Class 1, all others Class 2.
Nowhere does it have any provisos or reference to budget holder's discretion. I don't think it can be much clearer than that. Seems to me that if you fly over 2 1/2 hours you get Club Class or somebody is breaking a Queen's Regulation.
www.publications.raf.r.mil.uk/live/qrs/ch35.htm
you will find the following:
2505. Class of Travel
(4) By Civil Airline. Civil airlines operate a rough three tier class structure. Although not all classes may be available on each flight, the three classes fall into the folowing broadly defined bands:
Class 1 - First
Class 2 - Club, Executive, Business or Empress Club
Class 3 - Economy or Tourist
Where travel by civil airlines at public expense is authorised, it is to be the most economical within the class as follows:
(a) Class 1 and 3 available on aircraft. Up to 2 1/2 hours flying time - all personnel travel Class 3. over 2 1/2 hours flying time - AVM and above Class 1, all others Class 3
(b) Class 2 and 3 available on aircraft. Up to 2 1/2 hours flying time - AVM and above Class 2, all others Class 3. Over 2 1/2 hours flying time all personnel travel Class 2.
(c) All Classes available. Up to 2 1/2 hours flying time AVM and above Class 2, all others Class 3. Over 2 1/2 hours flying time ACM and above Class 1, all others Class 2.
Nowhere does it have any provisos or reference to budget holder's discretion. I don't think it can be much clearer than that. Seems to me that if you fly over 2 1/2 hours you get Club Class or somebody is breaking a Queen's Regulation.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I understand the RN always sends its bods club no matterwhat their rank, something to do with getting on a ship and immediately replacing another guy/gal who then leaves. Seems to work even when they are not joining a ship as I recently went to the states with a CPO who travelled club whilst I slummed it in cattle. Still could have been worse, could have been a herc.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Must have fallen on my feet, got 20 hrs notice to go to some ****ty place for (at the time of telling) an open ended stay. my boss signed off on a business class ticket and boy did I take advantage!!!!
That is what leadership is about if you ask me - 'sorry bloggs but I'm stitching you, go and get P***ed at the taxpayers expense as pay back'. Pity the guy has since retired
That is what leadership is about if you ask me - 'sorry bloggs but I'm stitching you, go and get P***ed at the taxpayers expense as pay back'. Pity the guy has since retired
