Supply Stupidities
Posted into RAF Bruggen and as the new boy on the Sqn I was told I was going on a MaxiMash exercise playing casualties at RAF Wegberg.
Depression set in until I arrived and we all were gathered together and told the ropes., pointing to several tents we were informed we would dress the part and old clothing had been provided to be torn, so wounds, protruding bones, fake blood etc could be added to make up realistic casualties etc.
Entering the tents we were all astonished to find them filled with uniform returns, probably from the whole of the Army and RAF, flying boots, jackets, combat kit, shirts, the whole nine yards, it was like Christmas at the sweetie shop, everyone’s kit bags fair bulged with the gathered loot and little of it made it to the exercise..
I became a dab hand recycling worn kit through clothing stores thus insuring enough returned kit for the next exercise.
Back at work they couldn’t understand why I volunteered for the next one.
…
Depression set in until I arrived and we all were gathered together and told the ropes., pointing to several tents we were informed we would dress the part and old clothing had been provided to be torn, so wounds, protruding bones, fake blood etc could be added to make up realistic casualties etc.
Entering the tents we were all astonished to find them filled with uniform returns, probably from the whole of the Army and RAF, flying boots, jackets, combat kit, shirts, the whole nine yards, it was like Christmas at the sweetie shop, everyone’s kit bags fair bulged with the gathered loot and little of it made it to the exercise..
I became a dab hand recycling worn kit through clothing stores thus insuring enough returned kit for the next exercise.
Back at work they couldn’t understand why I volunteered for the next one.
…
Isn't that fraud and theft?
OK One of mine.! My Flt Sgt (Photog) regaled me with a tale of a camera spare he ordered in Singapore.
After months it arrived in the docks but was held from him pending the availiabiity of a Queen Mary Low loader.
Which was what was required to transport a Shackleton Main Spar
HONEST!!!!
After months it arrived in the docks but was held from him pending the availiabiity of a Queen Mary Low loader.
Which was what was required to transport a Shackleton Main Spar
HONEST!!!!
I still have a brand new nav bag in my wardrobe. I had replaced the old one, because with almost twenty years of use, it had big holes in the bottom corners.
However not long after, I decided with three months to go signing up to another seventeen years as “Spec Aircrew”, that I’d really had enough of being a pawn in aspirational Chiefs of the Air Staff’s careers, so I gave up and took my 38 point option to become a civvie.
Never got to use the nav bag and stores wouldn’t take it back.
However not long after, I decided with three months to go signing up to another seventeen years as “Spec Aircrew”, that I’d really had enough of being a pawn in aspirational Chiefs of the Air Staff’s careers, so I gave up and took my 38 point option to become a civvie.
Never got to use the nav bag and stores wouldn’t take it back.
Avoid imitations
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As far as stuff “walking” from stores goes, the first Courts Martial I attended was for the prosecution of a store man who was stealing stuff to order. He’d had his own keys cut and had access 24/7. He got to do daily PT at Colchester, after which he got to wear his civvies.
Years later I went into a newly opened military supplies shop in Hong Kong. On proud display was a full set of RAF cold weather flying gear, which looked brand new and unused. It had helicopter squadron badges and even better, a personalised “Wings” patch, with the name of a pilot I knew quite well! That type of patch wasn’t issued from stores, they had to be purchased by the individual. I asked the shop owner where he sourced his stuff and he told me he’d bought a consignment of RAF clothing at a car boot sale near London!
Years later I went into a newly opened military supplies shop in Hong Kong. On proud display was a full set of RAF cold weather flying gear, which looked brand new and unused. It had helicopter squadron badges and even better, a personalised “Wings” patch, with the name of a pilot I knew quite well! That type of patch wasn’t issued from stores, they had to be purchased by the individual. I asked the shop owner where he sourced his stuff and he told me he’d bought a consignment of RAF clothing at a car boot sale near London!
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More like a loan as they got it all back as I cleared from the RAF as I had no use for it.. Most people had the odd extra shirts etc they gained during their service, stores used to give the old items back sometimes. Most of the stuff I exchanged was the stuff I was issued with as the other items were in much better condition.
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Last edited by NutLoose; 17th Jan 2024 at 10:58.
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At a certain Brigade Headquarters in the East of England in the mid 80's, the Chief Clerk was somewhat irked by the constant disappearance of the useful coloured felt tip "Notewriter" pens from his desk. Being a generous sort, he decided that he would order enough to issue each member of the 32 HQ Staff, (from Brigadier to Corporal) with their own supply - thus ensuring his would not continually go walkies. He thought he'd found just the thing in the catalogue - a box of 12, 2 x Black, 2 x Blue, 2 x Red and 6 other useful colours. Sorted.
When a delivery lorry turned up a couple of weeks later, he received 32 "Boxes", each "Box" contained 4 "Cartons", Each "Carton" contained 36 "Packs" of 12. Over 55,000 felt tip pens.....Oh how we laughed!
What was never understood was why nobody at the Stores end of the chain thought that it was an unusual amount to send out on a single request or even question it.
When a delivery lorry turned up a couple of weeks later, he received 32 "Boxes", each "Box" contained 4 "Cartons", Each "Carton" contained 36 "Packs" of 12. Over 55,000 felt tip pens.....Oh how we laughed!
What was never understood was why nobody at the Stores end of the chain thought that it was an unusual amount to send out on a single request or even question it.
Gentleman Aviator
the Supply organisation in the UK hadn’t actioned MPN’s order as they couldn’t understand why it had been ordered in summer!
They were prefab type buildings - imagine if IKEA built houses!
Were assembled by a specialist (sic) team from IIRC Croydon. Very nice house - shame about the South-facing sun lounge.........
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Fourtyodd2 as per your comment, I often wondered why the quantities to be delivered were never questioned by those in the supply chain, as you said it was an extraordinary amount above the usual amounts demanded in all cases.
Changing the order quantities was another great waste of time and expense:
When we set up the BDR kits at RAF Honington (for the Tornado), I ordered enough corrosion inhibitor to fill the spray bottles in each kit and for top ups, listed as being in pints I ordered the required amount, several weeks later supply phoned and say a fork lift truck was on its way with my order, bit puzzled when it arrive and there was four 50 gallon drums of the stuff, found out they changed the quantities from pints to drums without updating the system.
RAF Gutersloh ran out of white A4 paper and there was none available in the supply system, when I went to a nearby Army base to look at a replacement car, the RSM who was selling asked me if I had a use for white A4 paper, asked him why and he told me he ordered the usual amount of A4 paper for work and an articulated lorry had turned up with every last box of paper in the system, the reason, supply had changed the quantities from reams to boxes containing 5 reams each. When I picked up the car he kindly loaded the boot, back seat and passenger seat with as many boxes as he could fit in and I re-distributed them around Gutersloh until normal supplies resumed.
Another quantity change happened when I was down the Falkland Island, I was stitched up as the BDR inventory holder and checked the two part putty filler and it was long out of date, gave the old stuff to the guys who made the model slates for leaving gizzits and ordered the replacements, which should have been separate tubes. A new supply SNCO phoned and told me I could not have the stuff as it was classed as high value and he objected to the old stuff being wasted on the gizzits, I explained that I had to have the items or the BDR kits would be deficient and utilising the stuff for a worthy cause was better than just destroying it, but he was having none of it. I escalated the issue through the chain of command and was visited by a supply officer and said SNCO, the officer was great and when we finished our discussion he told his SNCO to issue me what I had ordere. When it arrived it was 12 boxes of 10 packets, I tried to return the surplus but the SNCO was having none of it so the gizzit team had plenty to use before I left.
Changing the order quantities was another great waste of time and expense:
When we set up the BDR kits at RAF Honington (for the Tornado), I ordered enough corrosion inhibitor to fill the spray bottles in each kit and for top ups, listed as being in pints I ordered the required amount, several weeks later supply phoned and say a fork lift truck was on its way with my order, bit puzzled when it arrive and there was four 50 gallon drums of the stuff, found out they changed the quantities from pints to drums without updating the system.
RAF Gutersloh ran out of white A4 paper and there was none available in the supply system, when I went to a nearby Army base to look at a replacement car, the RSM who was selling asked me if I had a use for white A4 paper, asked him why and he told me he ordered the usual amount of A4 paper for work and an articulated lorry had turned up with every last box of paper in the system, the reason, supply had changed the quantities from reams to boxes containing 5 reams each. When I picked up the car he kindly loaded the boot, back seat and passenger seat with as many boxes as he could fit in and I re-distributed them around Gutersloh until normal supplies resumed.
Another quantity change happened when I was down the Falkland Island, I was stitched up as the BDR inventory holder and checked the two part putty filler and it was long out of date, gave the old stuff to the guys who made the model slates for leaving gizzits and ordered the replacements, which should have been separate tubes. A new supply SNCO phoned and told me I could not have the stuff as it was classed as high value and he objected to the old stuff being wasted on the gizzits, I explained that I had to have the items or the BDR kits would be deficient and utilising the stuff for a worthy cause was better than just destroying it, but he was having none of it. I escalated the issue through the chain of command and was visited by a supply officer and said SNCO, the officer was great and when we finished our discussion he told his SNCO to issue me what I had ordere. When it arrived it was 12 boxes of 10 packets, I tried to return the surplus but the SNCO was having none of it so the gizzit team had plenty to use before I left.
My IOT flight commander, a supply branch officer, was court martialled (sp?), jailed and dismissed for several counts of fraud.
Beardy - they used to say that some IOT flight commanders were posted to Cranwell in the hope that while teaching the cadets to be officers they might learn how to be one themselves.
Whether that is correct or not I couldn't possibly comment.
Whether that is correct or not I couldn't possibly comment.
One of Danny 42C’s many priceless stories on the Brevet thread involved his command of 1315 Flight, set up in 1945 to carry out mustard gas trials on India’s Malabar coast. He takes up the story after requesting a small boat for air-sea rescue.
I was allocated a 24 ft Bomb Scow, whatever that might be. However, before this fine vessel could appear, I had to prepare moorings which were specified as three stone blocks chained together and terminating in a single chain and buoy. The length but not the size of this chain was specified. That, I suppose, would depend on the size of the boat.
While the CDRE were casting about for the stone, and masons to cut it to size, it fell to me to produce the chain from RAF sources. No mariners being to hand, Sgt Williams and I looked down the Stores lists, and decided that one-inch chain should be about right for a vessel of our size. The demand went in to the Maintenance Unit
About the middle of April I got my marching orders,1340 Flight had ceased to have any purpose and I told the MU to cancel the chain. My one and only command had lasted for only 13 months. A couple of days before I left, there was an agitated message from the local stationmaster. My chain had arrived, it was taking up a lot of room, could I please come and take it away? I went to have a look. No, I couldn't! When we put the demand in, we had blithely assumed the "one inch" referred to the overall size of a single link (well, it stands to reason,doesn't it?)
Unfortunately, it doesn't: it's the thickness of the rod from which the links are forged that counts. What we had specified would serve as anchor cable for the Queen Mary or at least a Mersey ferry, and I think there were 100 fathoms of it. Of course the stuff shouldn't have been sent at all; it was the MU's mistake as we'd cancelled the order. We signalled them to come and take it back.
Meanwhile this monstrous pile was taking up half the goods yard, and the stationmaster was tearing his hair out. I left for Bombay and never did hear the end of it. But everyone was in the winding-down phase, chaos reigned and I would not be at all surprised if the huge heap of rusting chain is there yet.
While the CDRE were casting about for the stone, and masons to cut it to size, it fell to me to produce the chain from RAF sources. No mariners being to hand, Sgt Williams and I looked down the Stores lists, and decided that one-inch chain should be about right for a vessel of our size. The demand went in to the Maintenance Unit
About the middle of April I got my marching orders,1340 Flight had ceased to have any purpose and I told the MU to cancel the chain. My one and only command had lasted for only 13 months. A couple of days before I left, there was an agitated message from the local stationmaster. My chain had arrived, it was taking up a lot of room, could I please come and take it away? I went to have a look. No, I couldn't! When we put the demand in, we had blithely assumed the "one inch" referred to the overall size of a single link (well, it stands to reason,doesn't it?)
Unfortunately, it doesn't: it's the thickness of the rod from which the links are forged that counts. What we had specified would serve as anchor cable for the Queen Mary or at least a Mersey ferry, and I think there were 100 fathoms of it. Of course the stuff shouldn't have been sent at all; it was the MU's mistake as we'd cancelled the order. We signalled them to come and take it back.
Meanwhile this monstrous pile was taking up half the goods yard, and the stationmaster was tearing his hair out. I left for Bombay and never did hear the end of it. But everyone was in the winding-down phase, chaos reigned and I would not be at all surprised if the huge heap of rusting chain is there yet.
The Lynx MRGB requires some ridiculous quantity of oil. Thirty eight pints, from memory. The oil alone is/was dangerous air cargo, but the gearbox, with oil in, was not. Ships allowance of oil was something limited, maybe 10 or 15 l, because the gearbox doesnt use much oil and inflam store space is scarce.
Every time HMS Something or other flight had a MRGB need replacing somewhere in farflung a gearbox was usually available, but the gearbox oil, which needed changing after a few hours could not be sent by air.
The supply solution was to send the box to Portland. There as much oil as the gearbox would hold was poured into it and the gearbox rebagged and put back in its transit container. It could then be shipped by air. On arrival at farflung, enough oil for an oil change was decanted from the gearbox into temporary containers and the gearbox fitted, test flown and in due course the oil was changed.
N
Every time HMS Something or other flight had a MRGB need replacing somewhere in farflung a gearbox was usually available, but the gearbox oil, which needed changing after a few hours could not be sent by air.
The supply solution was to send the box to Portland. There as much oil as the gearbox would hold was poured into it and the gearbox rebagged and put back in its transit container. It could then be shipped by air. On arrival at farflung, enough oil for an oil change was decanted from the gearbox into temporary containers and the gearbox fitted, test flown and in due course the oil was changed.
N
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Kitting for an OOA, turned up at Uxbridge with a mate who was due to be doing his stint in an adjacent hot and sandy place. They had all the stuff I needed, and some items I didn't but which obviously needed air miles, but my friend was told he needed a specially sized shirt. He commented that it was a bit odd as he had never required special sizing, including his flying kit. "That's what the system is saying" qouth the storeman. On the advertised collection date, he was presented with 3 folded shirts and very sensibly decided to try one on. He didn't get that far.
On unfolding the first shirt, it was a tad unusual in its styling and seemed unduly wide. The order was checked and the item was as ordered but the original storeman had managed to substitute height for chest measurement. Someone at the supplier had therefore, as requested, sat at a machine and made up 3 desert DPM shirts with a 6ft chest.
On unfolding the first shirt, it was a tad unusual in its styling and seemed unduly wide. The order was checked and the item was as ordered but the original storeman had managed to substitute height for chest measurement. Someone at the supplier had therefore, as requested, sat at a machine and made up 3 desert DPM shirts with a 6ft chest.
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Late 80s I was en route in a Hercules to Nellis AFB. Whilst staging through Little Rock (home of the USAF C-130 training unit, where more aircraft were based that the RAF had in total) a flight engineer (ours) switch pig caused one of our windsceeens to crack (both panes) to an extent that it was not fit to be taken into the air. The RAF had an agreement with the USAF to enable us to use their spares (which the RAF would then replace at the earliest opportunity); Little Rock had the correct windscreen in stock and were more than willing to issue it to us. On discussing with Lyneham, we were told not to take the USAF one; instead, one from Lyneham would be put on a Goose Flyer due to depart Lyneham later that day and the aircraft would be revitined to fly on to Little Rock (a further 5 hours each way).
Whilst waiting for our screen to arrive, our Ground Engineer (GE), along with a couple of USAF techs, removed our damaged screen. The aircraft with our spares arrived and the GE ambled up to the ramp to pick up the box containing the new screen. He was surprised how light the box was, which had 'empty' written in large letters on the top........and that word described the contents accurately.
We ended up with the Little Rock issued screen, but I wonder how much that escapade cost.....an extra 10 hours of C-130 flying time and an extra night accommodation for us, alongside accommodation for the crew delivering the empty box. Red faces all round (I hope).
Whilst waiting for our screen to arrive, our Ground Engineer (GE), along with a couple of USAF techs, removed our damaged screen. The aircraft with our spares arrived and the GE ambled up to the ramp to pick up the box containing the new screen. He was surprised how light the box was, which had 'empty' written in large letters on the top........and that word described the contents accurately.
We ended up with the Little Rock issued screen, but I wonder how much that escapade cost.....an extra 10 hours of C-130 flying time and an extra night accommodation for us, alongside accommodation for the crew delivering the empty box. Red faces all round (I hope).
Similar to the stories of Shack de-icing fluid:
At West Raynham, late 1960s, in early Summer the stores had no cold air units for the Hunter's pressurisation system. It turned that the stackers had just recently sent all the stock back to Stafford because none had been issued in the previous 6 months. I wonder why?
The sad thing about all the stories in this thread is that they display the same basic lack of comprehension - is that unkind?
At West Raynham, late 1960s, in early Summer the stores had no cold air units for the Hunter's pressurisation system. It turned that the stackers had just recently sent all the stock back to Stafford because none had been issued in the previous 6 months. I wonder why?
The sad thing about all the stories in this thread is that they display the same basic lack of comprehension - is that unkind?
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We discovered Supply Sqn could provide fuel to run the Gliding Club Chipmunk and what was more, it would be cheaper than buying it in from the local garage. Then we found out they would charge a percentage mark up for doing the paperwork. Pointing out it was the same amount paperwork, no matter how much we bought, fell on deaf ears and so we ended up continuing to have to buy it in. Tax payer 0 - Gliding Club 0.
One evening whilst I was SDO at a station on which I was serving, the Orderly Sergeant rang and asked me to come to the Guard Room. Upon arrival, the reason was clear - an airman had been caught red-handed stealing clothing items. It seems that he would pass them on to a civvy crony who would later flog them in a local market, splitting the proceeds.
The little bugger was arrested by the RAFP and banged up. I was then asked to wait the arrival of the local 'investigator'.... He duly turned up and looked quite intimidating (rather like the character Frank Burnside in the later TV programme 'The Bill') in his leather jacket and stern expression. After he introduced himself, I asked whether he needed me to stay for any reason...
"No, it's OK sir, I'll take it from here. I might need you if we have to 'tumble his drum' though"
"Do WHAT?"
"Tumble his drum. Oh, sorry sir, that's an expression we use in the trade - it means to search his room!"
"Ah, OK. I thought that you meant to give him a little 'physical persuasion' to cough!"
"Oh no sir! We can't do that! Be a bloody sight quicker if we could though!"
Chummy subsequently enjoyed a little holiday in Essex!
The little bugger was arrested by the RAFP and banged up. I was then asked to wait the arrival of the local 'investigator'.... He duly turned up and looked quite intimidating (rather like the character Frank Burnside in the later TV programme 'The Bill') in his leather jacket and stern expression. After he introduced himself, I asked whether he needed me to stay for any reason...
"No, it's OK sir, I'll take it from here. I might need you if we have to 'tumble his drum' though"
"Do WHAT?"
"Tumble his drum. Oh, sorry sir, that's an expression we use in the trade - it means to search his room!"
"Ah, OK. I thought that you meant to give him a little 'physical persuasion' to cough!"
"Oh no sir! We can't do that! Be a bloody sight quicker if we could though!"
Chummy subsequently enjoyed a little holiday in Essex!
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Circa 2000 I was tasked to fly to Nellis for the first rescue of a C130J that had broken down there. We of course (as a C130K) were cock-a-hoop at the prospect. We parked alongside, handed over their spares, took their load on board as we would get back to EGDL long before them and enjoyed a night stop in Vegas with a night in the Luxor casino hotel.
Next day the No 2 engine wouldn’t start and the GE diagnosed a broken FCU. There was a direct Virgin flight twice a week and it was due in a couple of days so we booked back into the Luxor to wait… meanwhile the J was fixed, took its load back and departed.
The Virgin flight duly arrived but of the spares there was no sign… it turned out that the RAF supply system wouldn’t pay the extra cost for priority freight so the box had not been loaded… we had to wait another 4 days for the next flight, at a cost of around $2000 per day in hotac and allowances, way more than the cost of priority freight would have been.
The J was back long before we were, and we didn’t even make it back in our own aircraft which we had to abandon at Goose Bay as it was repeatedly u/s, partly due to the week it had spent sweating in the heat at Nellis (but that’s a whole different story). Not quite the K beats J narrative we were aiming for…
Next day the No 2 engine wouldn’t start and the GE diagnosed a broken FCU. There was a direct Virgin flight twice a week and it was due in a couple of days so we booked back into the Luxor to wait… meanwhile the J was fixed, took its load back and departed.
The Virgin flight duly arrived but of the spares there was no sign… it turned out that the RAF supply system wouldn’t pay the extra cost for priority freight so the box had not been loaded… we had to wait another 4 days for the next flight, at a cost of around $2000 per day in hotac and allowances, way more than the cost of priority freight would have been.
The J was back long before we were, and we didn’t even make it back in our own aircraft which we had to abandon at Goose Bay as it was repeatedly u/s, partly due to the week it had spent sweating in the heat at Nellis (but that’s a whole different story). Not quite the K beats J narrative we were aiming for…
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Odiham,
I was told I needed a new number one for some parade of the other, so off I trots to the Station tailor who measures me up and announces I was an odd shape and none of the uniforms in stock would fit, so a tailor made item would need to be produced especially for me... months go by, parade was a distant memory and still no sign of the uniform when six or seven months later, it is in for final fitting at which point it will need to go back for completion.
Trying it on the new Station tailor is pleased with the fit, however i point out on the front panel, where the tailor making it had caught the material with a pair of scissors, he had cut a small V into it. The new tailor then asks why I needed one in the first place and I explained about odd shape etc, off he trots to return with a uniform off the shelf that simply needed the trouser leg length tweaking.
I was told I needed a new number one for some parade of the other, so off I trots to the Station tailor who measures me up and announces I was an odd shape and none of the uniforms in stock would fit, so a tailor made item would need to be produced especially for me... months go by, parade was a distant memory and still no sign of the uniform when six or seven months later, it is in for final fitting at which point it will need to go back for completion.
Trying it on the new Station tailor is pleased with the fit, however i point out on the front panel, where the tailor making it had caught the material with a pair of scissors, he had cut a small V into it. The new tailor then asks why I needed one in the first place and I explained about odd shape etc, off he trots to return with a uniform off the shelf that simply needed the trouser leg length tweaking.