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Entitlement to wear RAF 'wings'

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Entitlement to wear RAF 'wings'

Old 15th Nov 2023, 15:07
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Union Jack
That's why chaplains are called Sky Pilots!

Jack
Any linkage there for some pilots believing they are Gods?
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 15:21
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Originally Posted by superplum
Any linkage there for some pilots believing they are Gods?
All the pilots I have known, neighboured, socialised with and briefed were modest, self-deprecatory, unassuming and charming.

The only lies I tell are on Wednesday afternoons.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 16:38
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo
None of this changes the fact that my course and all others at that time (early '80s) "having passed to the required standard" were awarded wings on completion of the Gazelle course on 705NAS. At a Wings ceremony, presented by some Admiral or other in front of our families. That's nowhere near OCU. At the time we had about 160hrs total time, Bulldog and Gazelle.
Clearly the RAF and others (maybe even the RN) do it differently now, but that was the case back then. Having passed the course and been awarded the badge how can it be taken from you? If a submariner chose to restream as a pilot or vv would the old badge be forefiet? Surely that's as unthinkable as the Captain of the Naval Air Station who no longer flies or the Cdr posted to MoD losing his wings? It's nothing to do with currency!
The point of the Army AGAI is that your wings are provisional ("velcro" as they are pinned on at wings grad with velcro) until you qualify on a front line type. There are very recent cases where people have passed the Army Pilot Course but not completed a CTT and have therefore returned to their parent unit minus wings.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 16:46
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Originally Posted by teeteringhead
One of the strangest I recall was a pilot who left, studied appropriately and was then ordained in the C of E. A few years after that he rejoined as a Padre - and of course wore his wings! Looked very odd.......
I heard once of a former USN pilot who joined in the National Guard as an enlisted man and served in Iraq, complete with gold wings
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 18:18
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Originally Posted by teeteringhead
One of the strangest I recall was a pilot who left, studied appropriately and was then ordained in the C of E. A few years after that he rejoined as a Padre - and of course wore his wings! Looked very odd.......
Further thread drift: there have been a number of booties who made the transition to 'bish', non-angel wings may look strange but a commando dagger is another level.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 18:50
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Originally Posted by SLXOwft
Further thread drift: there have been a number of booties who made the transition to 'bish', non-angel wings may look strange but a commando dagger is another level.
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I was reminded about the Commando Chaplains documentary a few years ago, and found this.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 22:45
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I remember meeting an RAF Provost Officer in the early 2000’s who wore RAF Pilots wings. He said that he had been axed from the Chinook OCU but had qualified and been presented with his wings at the end of his rotary training, so still wore them.

I’ve seen photos of various RAF Police NCO’s wearing RAF Pilots Wings and Aircrew brevets. I can only guess towards the end of the war when the large numbers of surplus aircrew were reemployed in Ground Trades.

There is a current Serving RAF Doctor who wears RAF Pilots wings. He has never been a Pilot but I believe he may have served at RAF CAM and may have completed Flying Training as part of his medical requirements for studies of effects on Pilots etc.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 23:07
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“Flying Doctors” do train to wings level at least and some have gone on to do front-line tours of duty as operational pilots. Indeed, one even ended up on a squadron that was tasked with the delivery of nuclear weapons. Take that Hypocrites!

Mog
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 23:23
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Originally Posted by Mogwi
“Flying Doctors” do train to wings level at least and some have gone on to do front-line tours of duty as operational pilots. Indeed, one even ended up on a squadron that was tasked with the delivery of nuclear weapons. Take that Hypocrites!

Mog
A bucket of instant sunshine just for being a hypocrite seems a little excessive…
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 00:02
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Originally Posted by Avionker
A bucket of instant sunshine just for being a hypocrite seems a little excessive…
But would be effective in removing many symptoms!

CG
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 09:59
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Originally Posted by Mogwi
“Flying Doctors” do train to wings level at least and some have gone on to do front-line tours of duty as operational pilots. Indeed, one even ended up on a squadron that was tasked with the delivery of nuclear weapons. Take that Hypocrites!

Mog
Mike Bagshaw was a fully qualified doctor and FJ QFI; used to run the programme for 'sickies' at the School of Aviation medicine using a Hunter. Many were the times he called me for 'recovery and immediate landing'.
I think he's a 'professor' nowadays flying a civil Bulldog out of Blackbushe..
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 11:13
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KR for RAF, chapter 12 is your guide:

provisional award after completion of a prescribed course of flying training. This award is “fully earned” once successfully completing an operational conversion or equivalent course, and has joined a unit in the capacity for which the provisional badge has been awarded. “Joining” in this case is defined as:

RN - awarding CoC.
Army/RM - initial conversion to type training.
RAF - CR or B1 QFI

if an individual is withdrawn/leaves training before achieving these points, the holder may not continue to wear the badge.

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Old 17th Nov 2023, 11:50
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That seems a strange way to do things, here are your wings as you have passed training as such, but if you fail the OCU we will take them back. Perhaps a wings with a P in the centre for provisional would be better..

So the RAF Plod mentioned earlier was not entitled to wear them having been chopped on the Chinook OCU?

I remember meeting an RAF Provost Officer in the early 2000’s who wore RAF Pilots wings. He said that he had been axed from the Chinook OCU but had qualified and been presented with his wings at the end of his rotary training, so still wore them.
Mind you I do remember a direct entry JT who was so bad, they sent him back to Halton to re-sit the final exams, as they couldn't believe he had passed the first time, he had, did again and we got him back.
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 13:11
  #54 (permalink)  

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I believe that AEF pilots are no longer exclusively current or retired RAF. Civilian pilots flying with the AEF have their own wings. Since the gentleman in question holds a civilian licence, perhaps he could be allowed to wear the AEF pilot's wings.

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 24th Nov 2023 at 18:12. Reason: Remove reference to deleted posts
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 15:46
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perhaps he could be allowed to wear the AEF pilot's wings.
....... if he flies with the AEF.....
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 18:43
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Agreed, Teeters. However, that shouldn't be a major problem. Just a way round these things. BTW 370 hours AEF flying in the Chippy, first as a Regular, then as VR(T)
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 11:58
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My wings certificate is on the wall in front of me as I type and states ''Flying Officer Dan Winterland (name changed to protect the innocent) is qualified to wear the Royal Air Force Flying Badge with effect from......''. And I recall being told it was dependent on being ratified after being Comat Ready, or after 6 months if not in a combat role. And wings can most certainly be taken from you. One friend was chopped at TWU post AFTS and 'wings' award and because at the time there were no ME pilots slots, re-roled as a Nav, wearing the 'N' Brevet after combat ready. And another who was chopped on the Vulcan OCU, re-roled as a Nav, posted back to the Vulcan OCU who chopped him a second time. He had a successful career in the Admin Sec branch wearing no flying badge or brevet. And the badge worn depends on the service you serve. When I was at IOT, there was an officer cadet wearing RAF wings. Having transferred from the AAC to get a commission in the RAF (the Army refused him) he wore the RAF flying badge, not AAC. And another mate who was chopped on the RAF Nav course joined the Navy to become a pilot. After leaving, he joined the local AEF, and subsequently wore RAF uniform with RAF 'wings'.
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 13:55
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And the badge worn depends on the service you serve.
Not sure there’s a hard & fast rule on that? We had a pilot in the C130J who’d transferred from the AAC, he wore a specially-made badge on his flying suit, half AAC & half RAF wings, never saw him in No 1s but I’d guess he wore a normal pair on them but no idea which service.

There’s an ex-RN pilot in my AEF, he wears his Navy wings on his flying suit.

Then there’s this chap:




Not sure I’d take my lead from him though…
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 15:00
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Age plays tricks, but in the distant past (around 1970) was there not a V-Force nav, who had been GD/P but was downgraded medically, and continued to wear pilot's wings?
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Old 19th Nov 2023, 15:39
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As Support Helicopter Crewmen, we wore an ALM brevet.

A trainee Crewman was awarded his brevet, passed the OCU, posted to an operational sqn.
He failed to stay on the sqn, last seen in the early 80's as an SAC AATC at Manston......wearing his brevet.

Certainly for us, that was when the system was changed. Subsequently had to be declared CR before brevet was permanent.

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