Entitlement to wear RAF 'wings'
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None of this changes the fact that my course and all others at that time (early '80s) "having passed to the required standard" were awarded wings on completion of the Gazelle course on 705NAS. At a Wings ceremony, presented by some Admiral or other in front of our families. That's nowhere near OCU. At the time we had about 160hrs total time, Bulldog and Gazelle.
Clearly the RAF and others (maybe even the RN) do it differently now, but that was the case back then. Having passed the course and been awarded the badge how can it be taken from you? If a submariner chose to restream as a pilot or vv would the old badge be forefiet? Surely that's as unthinkable as the Captain of the Naval Air Station who no longer flies or the Cdr posted to MoD losing his wings? It's nothing to do with currency!
Clearly the RAF and others (maybe even the RN) do it differently now, but that was the case back then. Having passed the course and been awarded the badge how can it be taken from you? If a submariner chose to restream as a pilot or vv would the old badge be forefiet? Surely that's as unthinkable as the Captain of the Naval Air Station who no longer flies or the Cdr posted to MoD losing his wings? It's nothing to do with currency!
I heard once of a former USN pilot who joined in the National Guard as an enlisted man and served in Iraq, complete with gold wings
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I remember meeting an RAF Provost Officer in the early 2000’s who wore RAF Pilots wings. He said that he had been axed from the Chinook OCU but had qualified and been presented with his wings at the end of his rotary training, so still wore them.
I’ve seen photos of various RAF Police NCO’s wearing RAF Pilots Wings and Aircrew brevets. I can only guess towards the end of the war when the large numbers of surplus aircrew were reemployed in Ground Trades.
There is a current Serving RAF Doctor who wears RAF Pilots wings. He has never been a Pilot but I believe he may have served at RAF CAM and may have completed Flying Training as part of his medical requirements for studies of effects on Pilots etc.
I’ve seen photos of various RAF Police NCO’s wearing RAF Pilots Wings and Aircrew brevets. I can only guess towards the end of the war when the large numbers of surplus aircrew were reemployed in Ground Trades.
There is a current Serving RAF Doctor who wears RAF Pilots wings. He has never been a Pilot but I believe he may have served at RAF CAM and may have completed Flying Training as part of his medical requirements for studies of effects on Pilots etc.
“Flying Doctors” do train to wings level at least and some have gone on to do front-line tours of duty as operational pilots. Indeed, one even ended up on a squadron that was tasked with the delivery of nuclear weapons. Take that Hypocrites!
Mog
Mog
A bucket of instant sunshine just for being a hypocrite seems a little excessive…
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I think he's a 'professor' nowadays flying a civil Bulldog out of Blackbushe..
KR for RAF, chapter 12 is your guide:
provisional award after completion of a prescribed course of flying training. This award is “fully earned” once successfully completing an operational conversion or equivalent course, and has joined a unit in the capacity for which the provisional badge has been awarded. “Joining” in this case is defined as:
RN - awarding CoC.
Army/RM - initial conversion to type training.
RAF - CR or B1 QFI
if an individual is withdrawn/leaves training before achieving these points, the holder may not continue to wear the badge.
provisional award after completion of a prescribed course of flying training. This award is “fully earned” once successfully completing an operational conversion or equivalent course, and has joined a unit in the capacity for which the provisional badge has been awarded. “Joining” in this case is defined as:
RN - awarding CoC.
Army/RM - initial conversion to type training.
RAF - CR or B1 QFI
if an individual is withdrawn/leaves training before achieving these points, the holder may not continue to wear the badge.
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That seems a strange way to do things, here are your wings as you have passed training as such, but if you fail the OCU we will take them back. Perhaps a wings with a P in the centre for provisional would be better..
So the RAF Plod mentioned earlier was not entitled to wear them having been chopped on the Chinook OCU?
Mind you I do remember a direct entry JT who was so bad, they sent him back to Halton to re-sit the final exams, as they couldn't believe he had passed the first time, he had, did again and we got him back.
So the RAF Plod mentioned earlier was not entitled to wear them having been chopped on the Chinook OCU?
I remember meeting an RAF Provost Officer in the early 2000’s who wore RAF Pilots wings. He said that he had been axed from the Chinook OCU but had qualified and been presented with his wings at the end of his rotary training, so still wore them.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
I believe that AEF pilots are no longer exclusively current or retired RAF. Civilian pilots flying with the AEF have their own wings. Since the gentleman in question holds a civilian licence, perhaps he could be allowed to wear the AEF pilot's wings.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 24th Nov 2023 at 17:12. Reason: Remove reference to deleted posts
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Agreed, Teeters. However, that shouldn't be a major problem. Just a way round these things. BTW 370 hours AEF flying in the Chippy, first as a Regular, then as VR(T)
My wings certificate is on the wall in front of me as I type and states ''Flying Officer Dan Winterland (name changed to protect the innocent) is qualified to wear the Royal Air Force Flying Badge with effect from......''. And I recall being told it was dependent on being ratified after being Comat Ready, or after 6 months if not in a combat role. And wings can most certainly be taken from you. One friend was chopped at TWU post AFTS and 'wings' award and because at the time there were no ME pilots slots, re-roled as a Nav, wearing the 'N' Brevet after combat ready. And another who was chopped on the Vulcan OCU, re-roled as a Nav, posted back to the Vulcan OCU who chopped him a second time. He had a successful career in the Admin Sec branch wearing no flying badge or brevet. And the badge worn depends on the service you serve. When I was at IOT, there was an officer cadet wearing RAF wings. Having transferred from the AAC to get a commission in the RAF (the Army refused him) he wore the RAF flying badge, not AAC. And another mate who was chopped on the RAF Nav course joined the Navy to become a pilot. After leaving, he joined the local AEF, and subsequently wore RAF uniform with RAF 'wings'.
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And the badge worn depends on the service you serve.
There’s an ex-RN pilot in my AEF, he wears his Navy wings on his flying suit.
Then there’s this chap:
Not sure I’d take my lead from him though…
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Age plays tricks, but in the distant past (around 1970) was there not a V-Force nav, who had been GD/P but was downgraded medically, and continued to wear pilot's wings?
As Support Helicopter Crewmen, we wore an ALM brevet.
A trainee Crewman was awarded his brevet, passed the OCU, posted to an operational sqn.
He failed to stay on the sqn, last seen in the early 80's as an SAC AATC at Manston......wearing his brevet.
Certainly for us, that was when the system was changed. Subsequently had to be declared CR before brevet was permanent.
lsh
A trainee Crewman was awarded his brevet, passed the OCU, posted to an operational sqn.
He failed to stay on the sqn, last seen in the early 80's as an SAC AATC at Manston......wearing his brevet.
Certainly for us, that was when the system was changed. Subsequently had to be declared CR before brevet was permanent.
lsh