New 145’s rumoured to replace Puma in Cyprus and Brunei.
Lucifer,
Living the high life in Canadaland has fogged your memory somewhat. The last flight of an 84 Sqn Wessex in Cyprus was flown on 31 Jan 03 with a 3 ship led by me followed by a singleton flypast with ensign flown by OC 84. The following day they were packed up and flown to Brize Norton in an AN 124. The very last 84 Sqn flight by an 84 Sqn pilot in a Wessex was on 20 Feb 03 when I landed as number 4 of a 4 ship at Shawbury. The Seakings had already taken over the standby in Jan 03 having been flown out of the port and landed at Akrotiri on 31 Dec 02 so you most definitely did not do the last shift in Mar 03 which is when the Griffin arrived!
Enough of the history lesson and thread drift, as someone who has flown the Griffin in Cyprus and the Jupiter in the maritime role I would say that it is suitable for the task which 84 Sqn fulfils. Lack of DAS is a red herring, it is not required for the role and none of the previous aircraft have had it. A major advantage the Jupiter/H145 has is training mode. If there is a doubt over SE performance use it during a dummy winch and you will soon know what the aircraft thinks. Stretcher winching was not carried out at 202 Sqn as it was not a customer requirement but buy the right stretcher and I'm sure there are enough people around who could resurrect the skill. Heat exhaustion could be an issue as the 145 has a lot of glass and the cockpit gets really warm in the UK never mind a Med summer.
I think the biggest limitation will not be the aircraft but who owns the risk and how much they will accept. Military flying is a risky endeavour but I think a lot of people higher up the chain have forgotten this and their appetite for owning it has wained.
Living the high life in Canadaland has fogged your memory somewhat. The last flight of an 84 Sqn Wessex in Cyprus was flown on 31 Jan 03 with a 3 ship led by me followed by a singleton flypast with ensign flown by OC 84. The following day they were packed up and flown to Brize Norton in an AN 124. The very last 84 Sqn flight by an 84 Sqn pilot in a Wessex was on 20 Feb 03 when I landed as number 4 of a 4 ship at Shawbury. The Seakings had already taken over the standby in Jan 03 having been flown out of the port and landed at Akrotiri on 31 Dec 02 so you most definitely did not do the last shift in Mar 03 which is when the Griffin arrived!
Enough of the history lesson and thread drift, as someone who has flown the Griffin in Cyprus and the Jupiter in the maritime role I would say that it is suitable for the task which 84 Sqn fulfils. Lack of DAS is a red herring, it is not required for the role and none of the previous aircraft have had it. A major advantage the Jupiter/H145 has is training mode. If there is a doubt over SE performance use it during a dummy winch and you will soon know what the aircraft thinks. Stretcher winching was not carried out at 202 Sqn as it was not a customer requirement but buy the right stretcher and I'm sure there are enough people around who could resurrect the skill. Heat exhaustion could be an issue as the 145 has a lot of glass and the cockpit gets really warm in the UK never mind a Med summer.
I think the biggest limitation will not be the aircraft but who owns the risk and how much they will accept. Military flying is a risky endeavour but I think a lot of people higher up the chain have forgotten this and their appetite for owning it has wained.
I also recall when a Bell 412 from Air Log was doing the Cyrus/Lebanon Embassy thing....before it was rebranded by its owners and sent off to to Nigeria.
Crewed by civilians and somehow got the job done without any problems. I was to do the Ferry Flight but that got changed to where I picked it up on Accra then on to Lagos.
At times I do wonder how the RAF has managed following some turnover in staff.
Crewed by civilians and somehow got the job done without any problems. I was to do the Ferry Flight but that got changed to where I picked it up on Accra then on to Lagos.
At times I do wonder how the RAF has managed following some turnover in staff.
At times I do wonder how the RAF has managed following some turnover in staff.
Myra, does the 145 have a night overwater capability? I.e. autohover and transitions modes?
Autohover yes. It has a GTC (H) function that allows the pilot to either set a ground vector or ‘double tap’ for a hover. As for auto transition, no it does not, at least the RAF Jupiter does not - maybe it is an option?
Lucifer,
Living the high life in Canadaland has fogged your memory somewhat. The last flight of an 84 Sqn Wessex in Cyprus was flown on 31 Jan 03 with a 3 ship led by me followed by a singleton flypast with ensign flown by OC 84. The following day they were packed up and flown to Brize Norton in an AN 124. The very last 84 Sqn flight by an 84 Sqn pilot in a Wessex was on 20 Feb 03 when I landed as number 4 of a 4 ship at Shawbury. The Seakings had already taken over the standby in Jan 03 having been flown out of the port and landed at Akrotiri on 31 Dec 02 so you most definitely did not do the last shift in Mar 03 which is when the Griffin arrived!
Enough of the history lesson and thread drift, as someone who has flown the Griffin in Cyprus and the Jupiter in the maritime role I would say that it is suitable for the task which 84 Sqn fulfils. Lack of DAS is a red herring, it is not required for the role and none of the previous aircraft have had it. A major advantage the Jupiter/H145 has is training mode. If there is a doubt over SE performance use it during a dummy winch and you will soon know what the aircraft thinks. Stretcher winching was not carried out at 202 Sqn as it was not a customer requirement but buy the right stretcher and I'm sure there are enough people around who could resurrect the skill. Heat exhaustion could be an issue as the 145 has a lot of glass and the cockpit gets really warm in the UK never mind a Med summer.
I think the biggest limitation will not be the aircraft but who owns the risk and how much they will accept. Military flying is a risky endeavour but I think a lot of people higher up the chain have forgotten this and their appetite for owning it has wained.
Living the high life in Canadaland has fogged your memory somewhat. The last flight of an 84 Sqn Wessex in Cyprus was flown on 31 Jan 03 with a 3 ship led by me followed by a singleton flypast with ensign flown by OC 84. The following day they were packed up and flown to Brize Norton in an AN 124. The very last 84 Sqn flight by an 84 Sqn pilot in a Wessex was on 20 Feb 03 when I landed as number 4 of a 4 ship at Shawbury. The Seakings had already taken over the standby in Jan 03 having been flown out of the port and landed at Akrotiri on 31 Dec 02 so you most definitely did not do the last shift in Mar 03 which is when the Griffin arrived!
Enough of the history lesson and thread drift, as someone who has flown the Griffin in Cyprus and the Jupiter in the maritime role I would say that it is suitable for the task which 84 Sqn fulfils. Lack of DAS is a red herring, it is not required for the role and none of the previous aircraft have had it. A major advantage the Jupiter/H145 has is training mode. If there is a doubt over SE performance use it during a dummy winch and you will soon know what the aircraft thinks. Stretcher winching was not carried out at 202 Sqn as it was not a customer requirement but buy the right stretcher and I'm sure there are enough people around who could resurrect the skill. Heat exhaustion could be an issue as the 145 has a lot of glass and the cockpit gets really warm in the UK never mind a Med summer.
I think the biggest limitation will not be the aircraft but who owns the risk and how much they will accept. Military flying is a risky endeavour but I think a lot of people higher up the chain have forgotten this and their appetite for owning it has wained.
The 3 ship was followed by a role demo, I guess you forgot. When OC 84 shutdown on the last day, the aircraft were transferred at that moment to RAF disposals. You could not have flown an 84 Sqn Wessex into Shawbury, because it didn’t have any as they had already been removed from the Sqn inventory. Sorry to be pedantic but you seem a stickler for the facts.
Folks,
Can I recommend that we take that conversation offline and maybe stick to the topic at hand? Appreciate it's personal for both of you....
Autohover yes. It has a GTC (H) function that allows the pilot to either set a ground vector or ‘double tap’ for a hover. As for auto transition, no it does not, at least the RAF Jupiter does not - maybe it is an option?
Crab,
The Sqn's role has been considerably diluted from what you remember. Night decks had already been withdrawn by the time I left in 05 and I never got to hover the Griffin once over water at night, we were barely allowed to fly a night sit on the Southern cliffs. Ironically, the 412 EP delivered by Bell was originally a full glass 4 axis digital aircraft with transition and auto hover but the RAF didn't want such a jump in capability and so asked FBH to remove it and turn it back to clockwork! As you well know typical Cyprus weather is fairly benign so an all weather aircraft with auto transition and hover would be overkill and too expensive. Sometimes the simple solution really can be the best.
The Sqn's role has been considerably diluted from what you remember. Night decks had already been withdrawn by the time I left in 05 and I never got to hover the Griffin once over water at night, we were barely allowed to fly a night sit on the Southern cliffs. Ironically, the 412 EP delivered by Bell was originally a full glass 4 axis digital aircraft with transition and auto hover but the RAF didn't want such a jump in capability and so asked FBH to remove it and turn it back to clockwork! As you well know typical Cyprus weather is fairly benign so an all weather aircraft with auto transition and hover would be overkill and too expensive. Sometimes the simple solution really can be the best.
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Myra, but that is a bloody expensive simple solution!
I know that the Cypriots have their own capable SAR aircraft so the number of jobs that 84 would be called out on is greatly limited - but what about military ejections? Would they leave that to Cyprus SAR?
Whatever the likelihood of using SAR modes on an aircraft is, they will be based on an island in the Med so why not have them as standard?
I know that the Cypriots have their own capable SAR aircraft so the number of jobs that 84 would be called out on is greatly limited - but what about military ejections? Would they leave that to Cyprus SAR?
Whatever the likelihood of using SAR modes on an aircraft is, they will be based on an island in the Med so why not have them as standard?
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Myra, but that is a bloody expensive simple solution!
I know that the Cypriots have their own capable SAR aircraft so the number of jobs that 84 would be called out on is greatly limited - but what about military ejections? Would they leave that to Cyprus SAR?
Whatever the likelihood of using SAR modes on an aircraft is, they will be based on an island in the Med so why not have them as standard?
I know that the Cypriots have their own capable SAR aircraft so the number of jobs that 84 would be called out on is greatly limited - but what about military ejections? Would they leave that to Cyprus SAR?
Whatever the likelihood of using SAR modes on an aircraft is, they will be based on an island in the Med so why not have them as standard?
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Having been the Loan Service SAR examiner with RBrAF/ATUDB at the tail-end of the last century, I can certainly remember there being a dire need for some kind of credible heli SAR system in-country. On one occasion an AAC crew from Seria took a cross-border task near KK to find/pick up missing walkers, on at least one other they did a deck-winching task. I was the standby SAR Capt for both, and in each case the Brunei RCC turned the task down without even consulting the "op" part of the Air Force (I only heard about them when arriving at work the following day(s)). I use the term "op" in its loosest sense; ATUDB were fine for birthday flypasts and OK-ish for jungle resupp but you wouldn't want've had to rely on them for anything serious. Very frustrating for the 2, Hawk-trained, supremely competent operators they had on strength, one of whom wasn't even allowed to retire at the end of his engagement(!) - he had planned to join RBA but was told if he left the Air Force he would never work anywhere again. You couldn't make it up.
I believe someone who used to post on here as "Rottweiler" went out to run the BSP SAR flight.
I believe someone who used to post on here as "Rottweiler" went out to run the BSP SAR flight.
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122m contract awarded
https://des.mod.uk/122m-contract-see...735%2C69%2C734
'Defence Equipment & Support has awarded a £122m contract for six Airbus H145 helicopters to provide aviation support for UK troops in Brunei and the island of Cyprus.
In November 2023 the MOD announced its intention to procure the Airbus H145s through the release of a Voluntary Transparency Notification.
The Airbus H145 is familiar to Defence as it is already used as part of the UK Military Flying Training System to train helicopter aircrew in maritime, mountain and search and rescue techniques.
The additional helicopters will be used to support UK troops conducting jungle training in Brunei, including essential medical evacuation. The aircraft based in the Sovereign Base Areas (SBAs) on Cyprus will support UK training and military exercises (including joint UK/Republic of Cyprus activities) along with emergency response and aerial firefighting duties.
cheers
'Defence Equipment & Support has awarded a £122m contract for six Airbus H145 helicopters to provide aviation support for UK troops in Brunei and the island of Cyprus.
In November 2023 the MOD announced its intention to procure the Airbus H145s through the release of a Voluntary Transparency Notification.
The Airbus H145 is familiar to Defence as it is already used as part of the UK Military Flying Training System to train helicopter aircrew in maritime, mountain and search and rescue techniques.
The additional helicopters will be used to support UK troops conducting jungle training in Brunei, including essential medical evacuation. The aircraft based in the Sovereign Base Areas (SBAs) on Cyprus will support UK training and military exercises (including joint UK/Republic of Cyprus activities) along with emergency response and aerial firefighting duties.
cheers
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I’d say this is a sign and portent. Given the NMH budget has been reduced significantly to only 9 figures, along with the scoring associated with number of airframes offered, I suspect even Leonardo may struggle. So, my forecast, assuming Labour don’t defer a decision or delete the programme is it’ll be another £950M+ to Airbus for a 145/175 combo.
