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TOP GUN : Inside the RAF (where did it go?)

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TOP GUN : Inside the RAF (where did it go?)

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Old 31st Aug 2023, 15:09
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You want to try 2 days in a Puma, Odiham to Copenhagen with life ex rotor blades requiring you land, shut down and check the bims every hour, we landed at places I had never heard of and haven't since.
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Old 31st Aug 2023, 19:45
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What are the lumps and bumps on some of the flying helmets, and why only on some helmets?
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Old 31st Aug 2023, 20:06
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Originally Posted by MightyGem
What are the lumps and bumps on some of the flying helmets, and why only on some helmets?
They are part of the head tracking system that enables some information to be projected onto the helmet visor. ie HUD presentation even if you are looking over your shoulder. Helmets without the bumps are just helmets!
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Old 31st Aug 2023, 21:14
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy
It may be something to do with pipes in relation to gun barrels? Anyone else??

FB
I think it is to do with the water cooled early machine guns they worked with.
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Old 31st Aug 2023, 23:25
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Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
At the risk of looking like an idiot, why are armourers called "plumbers"? I've never got that one.
I was told Armourers are called Plumbers because the defensive guns on Lancaster and Halifax were water cooled. The gun turrets were hydraulically powered. Could be wrong though?

Airframes were are Riggers because WW1 aircraft used wire bracing and control rods which needed adjusting. The name might have came from the Royal Navy, as in setting up a ships rigging?
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 00:46
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Originally Posted by gr4techie
I was told Armourers are called Plumbers because the defensive guns on Lancaster and Halifax were water cooled. The gun turrets were hydraulically powered. Could be wrong though?

Airframes were are Riggers because WW1 aircraft used wire bracing and control rods which needed adjusting. The name might have came from the Royal Navy, as in setting up a ships rigging?
And the poor Leckies called Fog Dunkers due to one mans love for his Cpls pet Alsation.
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 07:04
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Originally Posted by gr4techie
I was told Armourers are called Plumbers because the defensive guns on Lancaster and Halifax were water cooled.
Only when it rained heavily GR4

As a slight aside - prior to and during WW2 the squadron Engineering Officers were usually referred to as 'The Plumber'
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 07:06
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Originally Posted by gr4techie
I was told Armourers are called Plumbers because the defensive guns on Lancaster and Halifax were water cooled. The gun turrets were hydraulically powered. Could be wrong though?
I think you've been given duff gen, GR4. The defensive armament on the Lancaster & Halifax (and all Bomber Command aircraft as far as I've read and seen in technical images) was air cooled.
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 09:31
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Post Scruffy

Probably no one cares these days.

But what a lot of scruffy Ground crew. I know things have changed since I left and beards are allowed. But if you have to have a beard, at least groom it. I think it shows complete lack of discipline, which is evident in the programme too.

BTW: We need more TYPHOONS and why is the F35 order on go slow?
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 10:01
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Do people not read the links posted, the answer is here reference Plumbers. Posted by Not a Boffin

https://rcaf.museum/history/airmen/t...-a-gun-plumber
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 10:04
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Originally Posted by WildRover
Probably no one cares these days.

But what a lot of scruffy Ground crew. I know things have changed since I left and beards are allowed. But if you have to have a beard, at least groom it. I think it shows complete lack of discipline, which is evident in the programme too.

BTW: We need more TYPHOONS and why is the F35 order on go slow?
Not sure when your time was, but, clearly you never encountered M.U engineers whose dress code was (very) loosely associated with the rest of the RAF...apart from one Sgt who actually pressed his denims. You may also be amazed to learn, that, maintaining aircraft tends to get a bit messy and dirty, hence there's no reason to try and emulate the Guards and their ceremonial dress / parades.

But, about the last bit.

Having watched both programmes, thus far I've not seen any aspect that could meet your "complete lack of discipline " comment...feel free to exemplify what you consider to be such.
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 10:20
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips
Not sure when your time was, but, clearly you never encountered M.U engineers whose dress code was (very) loosely associated with the rest of the RAF...apart from one Sgt who actually pressed his denims. You may also be amazed to learn, that, maintaining aircraft tends to get a bit messy and dirty, hence there's no reason to try and emulate the Guards and their ceremonial dress / parades.

But, about the last bit.

Having watched both programmes, thus far I've not seen any aspect that could meet your "complete lack of discipline " comment...feel free to exemplify what you consider to be such.
Tell that to the SWO on episode Two.. He muttered something about smartness and haircuts making Engineers better at their jobs and more dilligent in their approach to It...

My instant thought was bull****, keeping warm / cool and dry were more important than how your kit looked and what you wore, scarves, wooley hats and aquired bits and bobs were the norm, has he ever been out on a line?

Spend 12 hours crawling around an engine at night fixing it on an open apron in the middle of winter and a nice crease in your trousers and shiny shoes are the last thing you have on your mind, try shining a pair of shoes that have had engine oils, skydrol and a myriad of other fluids spilt on them. VC10 cabin compressor oil levels come to mind..

You often had parts of the RAF that were working against you, the storeman who wouldn't change my DMS boots that the soles were almost smooth on and slippy, they are dangerous when working on aircraft... You have safety boots for that comes the reply... so you expect me to change my boots out in the field everytime I need to work on a Puma top deck? It took my bosses interjection to get those changed.

Refusing to issue cold weather clothing, so we end up in Canada changing an engine out on an apron in mid winter wearing standard nylon cold weather kit.
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 11:16
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Cool

Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
Tales of a Gun Plumber (rcaf.museum)

Nowt to do with piping apparently......
nor RAF plumbers!
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 12:03
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Refusing to issue cold weather clothing, so we end up in Canada changing an engine out on an apron in mid winter wearing standard nylon cold weather kit.
Aahh, presumably the green nylon stuff we were issued as Linies in the 70s. It was made from a fabric specially developed at Porton Down, tailored by the usual suspects and marketed as anti-goretex. Completely impermeable to sweat, yet still allowed the cold and rain to penetrate unhindered.

And when you try and tell the kids of today .......
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 12:15
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Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz
Aahh, presumably the green nylon stuff we were issued as Linies in the 70s. It was made from a fabric specially developed at Porton Down, tailored by the usual suspects and marketed as anti-goretex. Completely impermeable to sweat, yet still allowed the cold and rain to penetrate unhindered.

And when you try and tell the kids of today .......
You were obviously wearing it inside out
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 12:18
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Originally Posted by WildRover
Probably no one cares these days.
But what a lot of scruffy Ground crew. I know things have changed since I left and beards are allowed. But if you have to have a beard, at least groom it. I think it shows complete lack of discipline, which is evident in the programme too.
BTW: We need more TYPHOONS and why is the F35 order on go slow?
​​​​I completely disagree and saw none of the things you are griping about, in fact what struck me was how little has changed in 25 years except the aircraft types. What do we need more Typhoons for? What mission is not being performed?
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 13:28
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Originally Posted by gr4techie
Airframes were are Riggers because WW1 aircraft used wire bracing and control rods which needed adjusting. The name might have came from the Royal Navy, as in setting up a ships rigging?
and trimming an aircraft because they used string doped to the trailing edge and trimmed to balance them...
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 13:29
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
You were obviously wearing it inside out
It was garbage, you would get soaked to the skin and it never seemed to dry.
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 14:17
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
You were obviously wearing it inside out
My National service Met.observer airmen in Nicosia 1961 had no rain protection other than "Deficiency Chits". It never rained but it poured. Sometimes forecast ...........
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Old 1st Sep 2023, 14:22
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Originally Posted by stevef
I think you've been given duff gen, GR4. The defensive armament on the Lancaster & Halifax (and all Bomber Command aircraft as far as I've read and seen in technical images) was air cooled.
The plumbing was for waggling, not cooling. Some turrets hydraulics, some electric. Very few had manual waggle and shoot.
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