RAF Coningsby Food Bank
The past is indeed a different country ...... I suspect that my generation is the Golden one, for which I am grateful.
In contrast to young folk's fortunes, this is my summary. Its not a brag, many of my peer group did better, few worse.
Definitely virtuous working class grandparents and parents, who made grammar school possibe. "If I can afford it, we can have it. Otherwise not".
Age 18 left school hatfull of O levels, 3 science A levels, entered MoD Met at lowest grade
23: married, wife stopped paid work and never returned, ever.
Age 31 family complete, four children
Had a proper UK holiday every year, always on property ladder, always had new cars and ran them for no longer than 3 years.
Ensured all children educated to 18, all with good A levels, two to uni, two to management.
Moved house at Her Majesty's command every 3 years or so.
Moved up greasy pole and up housing ladder.
Retired at 60 to nice village, 5 beds, been drawing super pension 26 years.
Regardless of military versus civil, that synopsis is unobtainable these days without the bank of Mum and Dad or a legacy. My grandchildren flatly disbelieve that we are not posh and privileged. The grandchildren married couples, house owners, with £100,000 combined salaries can not afford anything like my life-style.
I suspect this is the pattern in the developed world. That's Life.
In contrast to young folk's fortunes, this is my summary. Its not a brag, many of my peer group did better, few worse.
Definitely virtuous working class grandparents and parents, who made grammar school possibe. "If I can afford it, we can have it. Otherwise not".
Age 18 left school hatfull of O levels, 3 science A levels, entered MoD Met at lowest grade
23: married, wife stopped paid work and never returned, ever.
Age 31 family complete, four children
Had a proper UK holiday every year, always on property ladder, always had new cars and ran them for no longer than 3 years.
Ensured all children educated to 18, all with good A levels, two to uni, two to management.
Moved house at Her Majesty's command every 3 years or so.
Moved up greasy pole and up housing ladder.
Retired at 60 to nice village, 5 beds, been drawing super pension 26 years.
Regardless of military versus civil, that synopsis is unobtainable these days without the bank of Mum and Dad or a legacy. My grandchildren flatly disbelieve that we are not posh and privileged. The grandchildren married couples, house owners, with £100,000 combined salaries can not afford anything like my life-style.
I suspect this is the pattern in the developed world. That's Life.
So, please save the exhortations to budgetary discipline. The best way you can help younger people to get on is to write letters in support of every planning application for housing in your district, green belt or not. Be a YIMBY. If you want to go all in, vote for election candidates who promise to support housebuilding. Yes, it will erode the paper value of your property. No, you did not earn all of it.
A small amount of this I spend volunteering at a foodbank, something I got involved in out of a simple academic curiosity after a discussion with a long serving volunteer and family friend rather than any higher ideals. I think I've kept on doing it out of habit rather than anything else. The other volunteers are a friendly bunch.
The food bank (not Coningsby before anyone asks) has been a real eye opener, an education in fact. And I’d like to share a few personal thoughts based on my experiences. Some that come through our doors are veterans, though I have not yet had a currently serving, well that I am aware of.
There are certainly the ones who come through the doors who reinforce some of the usual images – ‘the entitled’, the ‘druggies’, the 'benefit families', the ‘homeless alcoholic in the park’. I am also sure there is someone somewhere fulfilling the Daily Mail wet dream of having a large tv, Pitbull, and smoking all 100 fags a day. But my experience is most are trying their best for their families while being in a metaphorical hole of xxxx that is very difficult to get out of. Or increasingly more common, those who are so deep in the hole they’ve either given up or are in the process of doing so. In a social system that whatever your political beliefs, is simply not fit for purpose (and this is from someone with traditional ‘small c’, conservative views).
The hardest hitting are those that you realise if you'd been ‘in their boots’ you'd have ended up exactly in the same place. And this is particularly true of the youth.
There is plenty of research out there on why people end up using foodbanks but my experience is it's usually more complex than a newspaper headline. Some are obvious cliff edge events and their ongoing aftermath, such as catastrophic illness or accident, relationship breakdown, unemployment, business failure, or even more unusual ones like a complex fraud that takes everything (and I mean everything). Some are an amalgamation of bad luck on top of bad luck. The slow descents are the worst - so slow they don't even notice until they hit the bottom facing the door of the foodbank. You spot them outside - embarrassed, initially too proud to come in. They are usually apologetic and overly thankful, or the opposite, carrying a bravado that quickly dissolves. Some had saved for the future - but it wasn’t enough under the weight of cancer, or death of their lifelong partner, or….. Some are even simpler than this; for example, we are getting more pensioners who simply cannot survive on their pensions.
You also quickly learn that parts of the system that are meant to support them are not just counter-productive but sometimes simply vile. For example, people on basic benefits who have had payments stopped because DWP suddenly decide they are in overpayment, often the result of a mistake, leaving these people at short notice having nothing, even if they believe the DWP have got it wrong. Alternatively, a particular nasty, recently banned, practice that a lady in dire need told me of where her energy company deducting a large percentage of emergency Government smart metre vouchers direct from her meter as a debt repayment rather than its intended purpose of actually heating the home, which included young children. And this was during the depths of last winter.
The veterans are the ones I find easiest to spot, regardless of age. And the ones I put the ‘staff only’ kettle on for. The reasons for them being there, like those already mentioned, are counterintuitively both complex and simple at the same time. To put it another way, there are as many reasons as veterans and civilians combined. I find it easier to empathise with ones of my age – at my age a great conversation can be had of shared ailments! But a particular group that I’d like to highlight are the younger veterans who inevitably have served short periods and have not really transitioned to civilian life. What I'd call the Tommy’s of the Iraq and Afghanistan war. You can signpost all you like, but some seem to have had such an unpleasant experience of service life, and sometimes the charities themselves and the aftermath, that they are simply distrustful of any support.
So what is the point of my ramble. My late father always said, ‘don’t judge anyone until you’ve tried to walk in their boots’. The fact servicemen apparently need food banks at Coningsby, though abhorrent seems to me to be missing the main point that there should be no need for a food bank in the 21st Century at all. But it’s not something the Government can take sole blame for. Servicemen using foodbanks is also a failure of military leadership but we are all to blame. A little compassion and self-reflection goes a very long way
Last edited by I am not Spartacus; 13th Jun 2023 at 20:34. Reason: Mistakes corrected
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Regarding housing, we always sold up as we moved because we never wanted to be posted back to the same area, and tales about disaster rentings were very off-putting. Fortunately I had some influence over postings as I would always choose to volunteer where/ when to advance children's education and my CV. There was always a shortage of those happy to be mobile, mainly because of well-paid working spouses. Bringing up four children qualified was working as far as my wife was [justifiably] concerned.
Last edited by langleybaston; 13th Jun 2023 at 20:19.
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I knew I could rely on you. I hacked my watch to wonder how long your reply would take.
You’re absolutely right on pensions but that was not the main thrust of ES’s post and my vociferous agreement. I was more concerned with the UK housing market and the relative affordability of houses and mortgages now vs 30-40 years ago.
Just ask my brother and sister in law who are earning decent salaries but can neither afford to rent or buy anywhere near their home and work locations and are not eligible for social housing.
If you want to bring it back to RAF specifics then, as good as the pension currently is, you have to stay for a full career to get it and all that time you’ll struggle to get on the housing ladder anywhere. As a result more people will leave sooner and seek employment elsewhere. Which of course will lower the pensions bill significantly as a result of the increased staff turnover. Which does make you wonder if that’s not the true master plan.
BV
You’re absolutely right on pensions but that was not the main thrust of ES’s post and my vociferous agreement. I was more concerned with the UK housing market and the relative affordability of houses and mortgages now vs 30-40 years ago.
Just ask my brother and sister in law who are earning decent salaries but can neither afford to rent or buy anywhere near their home and work locations and are not eligible for social housing.
If you want to bring it back to RAF specifics then, as good as the pension currently is, you have to stay for a full career to get it and all that time you’ll struggle to get on the housing ladder anywhere. As a result more people will leave sooner and seek employment elsewhere. Which of course will lower the pensions bill significantly as a result of the increased staff turnover. Which does make you wonder if that’s not the true master plan.
BV
I think again there is a flaw in that argument from an HM Forces perspective. The cost of SFA/SLA is hellishly cheap and so if you can’t afford to buy in your current posting location then use it and buy somewhere you can afford. Then you can rent it - as long as you get back in your pocket at least what you are paying for your SFA/SLA then you are good.
The average cost of SFA rent is around £350 a month. The average rent for a 3 bed property is between £1200-£1500 in most of the UK. If you can’t make that maths work then there is something wrong! As ever, service people want their cake and eat it - they get posted to Benson, Odiham, Northolt or similar and then moan they can’t afford a house in the local area. Well many could if they wanted to, but it wouldn’t be as good as SFA in all likelihood. So they either buy something, like the rest of the UK population, that is up to 90 mins commute away that they can afford or they live in a local rabbit hutch. Of course if you get posted to places like Lincolnshire, etc… then there are veritable palaces up for sale for very little money if you don’t mind living in the countryside.
If you choose wisely, then you may only have to live away from that choice for a couple of postings during a full career. That worked for me and there were more bases when I first joined.
What does an Air Specialist (Class 1) take home every month? About £2,200. A Corporal maybe £2,500 and a Sgt around £2,750.
A reasonable 3 bed semi in Sleaford might cost you £190k right now. With a 10% deposit that would be a ~£1,100 mortgage with a 6% repayment mortgage over 25 years. So roughly half an Air Specialist’s wage. If they don’t have an ‘other half’ helping pay bills then that will be tough and so the only other thing is to try renting a room out to a mate. For a Sgt, they would have £1650 a month left, plus anything their other half pays, which is manageable.
Transpose that to Benson then you’d probably be looking at house somewhere cheaper locally like Wantage. Average for the same house is £350k. So mortgage is now £2k with a £35k deposit at the same rate. That is fairly unaffordable without a decent second salary from an other half. So it’s time to go for SLA and buy somewhere where you may end up being posted to instead (like Sleaford) then rent it out or weekly commute and living in SLA.
Now let’s say that individual is a Corporal at EDP20/40 on AFPS15. They could leave at age 40 and get an EDP of £5k per year and a tax free lump sum of £33k. They could then get a job that pays £5k less, ie. £30k a year, and have £33k in the bank - and be on a slightly better pay than they were as a Cpl with their new pay and EDP combined. At state pension age they would see that become £15k a year AFPS15 pension, plus £11k of state pension. Total £26k per year in retirement, at 2023 value index linked up to what that is worth in retirement, unless they saved for another pension when they left to add to it. They would own their house in Sleaford without mortgage. That would be a fairly humble but comfortable existence and easily doable for most.
So, nope, not buying it. It isn’t impossible to get “on the ladder” (which is always a long term thing as prices do go up and down - which is why it’s called a ladder!) for even the lowest paid ranks in the Services. It will be hard, but not impossible.
Of course, as others have said, there is an issue of entitlement going on - wanting foreign holidays, flashy motors, modern 3 bed detached houses with landscaped gardens and brand new furniture throughout. But that is just an expectation reset that most of us go through as young people, regardless of generation.
So-called 'starter homes' in Witney, near Brize, are roughly three times the price they should be if inflation is taken into account. Service pay most definitely hasn't kept pace, I'm sorry to say.....
The 2-bed box with garage I bought in 1983 should now cost £109K. However, similar homes are currenty advertised at £365K, usually without garages. How the heck would a newly promoted single aircrew Flt Lt, let alone a married airman (or whatever the latest woke word is) afford that??
The 2-bed box with garage I bought in 1983 should now cost £109K. However, similar homes are currenty advertised at £365K, usually without garages. How the heck would a newly promoted single aircrew Flt Lt, let alone a married airman (or whatever the latest woke word is) afford that??
Last edited by BEagle; 13th Jun 2023 at 23:02.
Yes, the BFG perk was used each time, but never used more than one car per three years, thus Gutersloh, plus JHQ, plus JHQ equals four cars in about 20 years.
Regarding housing, we always sold up as we moved because we never wanted to be posted back to the same area, and tales about disaster rentings were very off-putting. Fortunately I had some influence over postings as I would always choose to volunteer where/ when to advance children's education and my CV. There was always a shortage of those happy to be mobile, mainly because of well-paid working spouses. Bringing up four children qualified was working as far as my wife was [justifiably] concerned.
Regarding housing, we always sold up as we moved because we never wanted to be posted back to the same area, and tales about disaster rentings were very off-putting. Fortunately I had some influence over postings as I would always choose to volunteer where/ when to advance children's education and my CV. There was always a shortage of those happy to be mobile, mainly because of well-paid working spouses. Bringing up four children qualified was working as far as my wife was [justifiably] concerned.
There are without doubt systemic problems in the UK housing market and in the way that employers (don't) value people. The past is certainly another country where things were done differently, but it is possible to take lessons from the past. A quick glance at the CPI/RPI basket illustrates what is considered as the essentials of modern life. I don't think that some should be considered necessary for individuals, we are expected to buy things we want but don't need and may not be able to afford. But without them our consumerism (service industry) based economy would crumble, which would make things much worse. So we're caught in a whirlpool that's sucking the younger amongst us down.
Last edited by beardy; 14th Jun 2023 at 06:39.
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So-called 'starter homes' in Witney, near Brize, are roughly three times the price they should be if inflation is taken into account. Service pay most definitely hasn't kept pace, I'm sorry to say.....
The 2-bed box with garage I bought in 1983 should now cost £109K. However, similar homes are currenty advertised at £365K, usually without garages. How the heck would a newly promoted single aircrew Flt Lt, let alone a married airman (or whatever the latest woke word is) afford that??
The 2-bed box with garage I bought in 1983 should now cost £109K. However, similar homes are currenty advertised at £365K, usually without garages. How the heck would a newly promoted single aircrew Flt Lt, let alone a married airman (or whatever the latest woke word is) afford that??
So, a single Flt Lt teams up with his mate, or two, buys a dero, spends their otherwise spare tine refurbishing it, learns DIY as they go, sells for a profit and repeats and moves on!
Been there, done that!
Last edited by RetiredBA/BY; 15th Jun 2023 at 06:05.
So-called 'starter homes' in Witney, near Brize, are roughly three times the price they should be if inflation is taken into account. Service pay most definitely hasn't kept pace, I'm sorry to say.....
The 2-bed box with garage I bought in 1983 should now cost £109K. However, similar homes are currenty advertised at £365K, usually without garages. How the heck would a newly promoted single aircrew Flt Lt, let alone a married airman (or whatever the latest woke word is) afford that??
The 2-bed box with garage I bought in 1983 should now cost £109K. However, similar homes are currenty advertised at £365K, usually without garages. How the heck would a newly promoted single aircrew Flt Lt, let alone a married airman (or whatever the latest woke word is) afford that??
So, a single Flt Lt teams up with his mate, or two, buys a dero, spends their otherwise spare tine refurbishing it, learns DIY as they go, sells for a profit and repeats and moves on!
Been there, done that!
Seriously, it's fine to say it's possible (it is, technically) but quality of life when you're spending 60%+ of your pay on just your mortgage (before energy bills which are, of course, interesting just now) does not quality of life make. I scrimped and saved and lived on pasta and sauce the first year I had my first place, but I was a flying officer on pittance and managed it 20+ years ago, no way someone in the same boat would manage that now - you'd need to be a mid-band flt Lt with actual flying pay to get the same place I bought with a 10% deposit.
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As a mere little helicopter company’s Quality Manager with a couple of Licence type ratings I’m earning in excess of £90K
In the 'Airmens Mess' (nowadays called JRM) us cadets were served 4 cooked meals per day (breakfast, lunch, tea, supper), the last commencing at 8 pm presumably because Ballykelly operated H24 patrols 7 days per week and yes, they served beans with each meal.
Glad to please, BV
I think again there is a flaw in that argument from an HM Forces perspective. The cost of SFA/SLA is hellishly cheap and so if you can’t afford to buy in your current posting location then use it and buy somewhere you can afford. Then you can rent it - as long as you get back in your pocket at least what you are paying for your SFA/SLA then you are good.
The average cost of SFA rent is around £350 a month. The average rent for a 3 bed property is between £1200-£1500 in most of the UK. If you can’t make that maths work then there is something wrong! As ever, service people want their cake and eat it - they get posted to Benson, Odiham, Northolt or similar and then moan they can’t afford a house in the local area. Well many could if they wanted to, but it wouldn’t be as good as SFA in all likelihood. So they either buy something, like the rest of the UK population, that is up to 90 mins commute away that they can afford or they live in a local rabbit hutch. Of course if you get posted to places like Lincolnshire, etc… then there are veritable palaces up for sale for very little money if you don’t mind living in the countryside.
If you choose wisely, then you may only have to live away from that choice for a couple of postings during a full career. That worked for me and there were more bases when I first joined.
What does an Air Specialist (Class 1) take home every month? About £2,200. A Corporal maybe £2,500 and a Sgt around £2,750.
A reasonable 3 bed semi in Sleaford might cost you £190k right now. With a 10% deposit that would be a ~£1,100 mortgage with a 6% repayment mortgage over 25 years. So roughly half an Air Specialist’s wage. If they don’t have an ‘other half’ helping pay bills then that will be tough and so the only other thing is to try renting a room out to a mate. For a Sgt, they would have £1650 a month left, plus anything their other half pays, which is manageable.
Transpose that to Benson then you’d probably be looking at house somewhere cheaper locally like Wantage. Average for the same house is £350k. So mortgage is now £2k with a £35k deposit at the same rate. That is fairly unaffordable without a decent second salary from an other half. So it’s time to go for SLA and buy somewhere where you may end up being posted to instead (like Sleaford) then rent it out or weekly commute and living in SLA.
Now let’s say that individual is a Corporal at EDP20/40 on AFPS15. They could leave at age 40 and get an EDP of £5k per year and a tax free lump sum of £33k. They could then get a job that pays £5k less, ie. £30k a year, and have £33k in the bank - and be on a slightly better pay than they were as a Cpl with their new pay and EDP combined. At state pension age they would see that become £15k a year AFPS15 pension, plus £11k of state pension. Total £26k per year in retirement, at 2023 value index linked up to what that is worth in retirement, unless they saved for another pension when they left to add to it. They would own their house in Sleaford without mortgage. That would be a fairly humble but comfortable existence and easily doable for most.
So, nope, not buying it. It isn’t impossible to get “on the ladder” (which is always a long term thing as prices do go up and down - which is why it’s called a ladder!) for even the lowest paid ranks in the Services. It will be hard, but not impossible.
Of course, as others have said, there is an issue of entitlement going on - wanting foreign holidays, flashy motors, modern 3 bed detached houses with landscaped gardens and brand new furniture throughout. But that is just an expectation reset that most of us go through as young people, regardless of generation.
I think again there is a flaw in that argument from an HM Forces perspective. The cost of SFA/SLA is hellishly cheap and so if you can’t afford to buy in your current posting location then use it and buy somewhere you can afford. Then you can rent it - as long as you get back in your pocket at least what you are paying for your SFA/SLA then you are good.
The average cost of SFA rent is around £350 a month. The average rent for a 3 bed property is between £1200-£1500 in most of the UK. If you can’t make that maths work then there is something wrong! As ever, service people want their cake and eat it - they get posted to Benson, Odiham, Northolt or similar and then moan they can’t afford a house in the local area. Well many could if they wanted to, but it wouldn’t be as good as SFA in all likelihood. So they either buy something, like the rest of the UK population, that is up to 90 mins commute away that they can afford or they live in a local rabbit hutch. Of course if you get posted to places like Lincolnshire, etc… then there are veritable palaces up for sale for very little money if you don’t mind living in the countryside.
If you choose wisely, then you may only have to live away from that choice for a couple of postings during a full career. That worked for me and there were more bases when I first joined.
What does an Air Specialist (Class 1) take home every month? About £2,200. A Corporal maybe £2,500 and a Sgt around £2,750.
A reasonable 3 bed semi in Sleaford might cost you £190k right now. With a 10% deposit that would be a ~£1,100 mortgage with a 6% repayment mortgage over 25 years. So roughly half an Air Specialist’s wage. If they don’t have an ‘other half’ helping pay bills then that will be tough and so the only other thing is to try renting a room out to a mate. For a Sgt, they would have £1650 a month left, plus anything their other half pays, which is manageable.
Transpose that to Benson then you’d probably be looking at house somewhere cheaper locally like Wantage. Average for the same house is £350k. So mortgage is now £2k with a £35k deposit at the same rate. That is fairly unaffordable without a decent second salary from an other half. So it’s time to go for SLA and buy somewhere where you may end up being posted to instead (like Sleaford) then rent it out or weekly commute and living in SLA.
Now let’s say that individual is a Corporal at EDP20/40 on AFPS15. They could leave at age 40 and get an EDP of £5k per year and a tax free lump sum of £33k. They could then get a job that pays £5k less, ie. £30k a year, and have £33k in the bank - and be on a slightly better pay than they were as a Cpl with their new pay and EDP combined. At state pension age they would see that become £15k a year AFPS15 pension, plus £11k of state pension. Total £26k per year in retirement, at 2023 value index linked up to what that is worth in retirement, unless they saved for another pension when they left to add to it. They would own their house in Sleaford without mortgage. That would be a fairly humble but comfortable existence and easily doable for most.
So, nope, not buying it. It isn’t impossible to get “on the ladder” (which is always a long term thing as prices do go up and down - which is why it’s called a ladder!) for even the lowest paid ranks in the Services. It will be hard, but not impossible.
Of course, as others have said, there is an issue of entitlement going on - wanting foreign holidays, flashy motors, modern 3 bed detached houses with landscaped gardens and brand new furniture throughout. But that is just an expectation reset that most of us go through as young people, regardless of generation.
All of which makes sense. Except most mortage lenders won't lend more than 4 or perhaps 5x salary at a push, so jnr offr or or will need very much more than 10% deposit for a look in.