Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Eject! Eject! - John Nichol

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Eject! Eject! - John Nichol

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 17th May 2023, 09:33
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: London,UK
Posts: 174
Received 81 Likes on 21 Posts
Originally Posted by downsizer
You're right, you probably shouldn't!

However since you asked....the shortest answer is, despite never having met or worked with you, I didn't think I liked you.

I joined a couple years after the events referenced in the book and there was certainly a line in various crew rooms that you were a bell end, or a failure, or a big head, or various combinations of similar. Also annoyance at seeing you trotted out on the news etc, etc. These lines were, in clear hindsight, peddled by people who had never even come close to putting themselves into the danger that you and others did in '91. I'm ashamed to admit I accepted those PoVs without any critical thought or analysis and should have realised that if someone raises their head above the parapet then others will take pot shots. So I spent the last 30 years largely discounting anything you said or wrote. I like to think I don't behave like that today.

Now I was gifted the book and thought, I don't want to read this pish (also I spent more time on harriers than tornado), but I took it on holiday with me last summer and I couldn't put it down. I'll admit that parts brought a tear to my eye. I thought it was really well written and thoroughly enjoyed it. I only really understood a fraction of what you and the guys went through till I read it, my career was mostly based around Iraq and Afghan with a bit of ex-Yug thrown in.

Now, you may well be a bell end, I have no idea, but I suspect not! And you can certainly write a good book. And I will no longer trot out tired tropes about you until I've met you to confirm one way or the other!

Hope that makes sense and doesn't offend too much!
Thanks for the reply & it doesn't offend me at all Downsizer! Mrs N has certainly called me a bell-end many times.... and she married me!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I've had such comments (almost all from people I have never met) for 32 years - still do in fact. But it's water off a tubby old Nav's back to be honest.

In some ways, I guess I understand some of the resentment - I did indeed 'just get shot down' and my friends & colleagues at that time certainly gave more, and performed more successfully than I did. Indeed some gave all.

After leaving five years later, my career in the media and especially in writing has certainly 'taken off'. But I like to think that (especially after a million or so books sales and a BAFTA nominated documentary) it's not all 'just 'cos he got shot down'.

Anyhoo, I appreciate your comments and hope you enjoy the book. If we do ever meet, you can decide if you agree with Mrs N about any bell-endness...

I may see some of you at the 617 Sqn service this evening?



John Nichol is offline  
Old 18th May 2023, 01:11
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,941
Received 393 Likes on 208 Posts
John, does Bill Weavers M3+ escape count as an ejection, never used the seat, but the aircraft certainly "ejected" him.

Love your writing, purchased your first as soon as it hit the shelves, looks like I'm up for another.
megan is offline  
Old 18th May 2023, 02:25
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,579
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes on 45 Posts
SR-71 Pilot [Bill Weaver] explains how he Survived to his Blackbird Disintegration at a Speed of Mach 3.2
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-7...d-of-mach-3-2/
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 18th May 2023, 09:14
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: London,UK
Posts: 174
Received 81 Likes on 21 Posts
Originally Posted by SpazSinbad
SR-71 Pilot [Bill Weaver] explains how he Survived to his Blackbird Disintegration at a Speed of Mach 3.2
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-7...d-of-mach-3-2/
The Bill Weaver story really is astonishing and I did mull over using it. But as I had so many other accounts of those whose ejections marked the beginning of yet another sequence of astonishing events, I decided to go with them.

If any of you know Tornado F3 Nav Ian Weaver, his horrific high-speed, out of parameters, near-fatal ejection is just astounding. His story of survival even more so.


John Nichol is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 18th May 2023, 09:18
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,579
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes on 45 Posts
IAN WEAVER STORY: One mans tale of his battle to recover from his F3 Ejection. - PPRuNe Forums
SpazSinbad is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 18th May 2023, 10:42
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,256
Received 332 Likes on 185 Posts
Originally Posted by SpazSinbad
Sadly, as with many topics in this internet age, the links no longer work. It is easy to find details of the accident elsewhere, but not his actual personal story.
212man is offline  
Old 18th May 2023, 11:03
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: London,UK
Posts: 174
Received 81 Likes on 21 Posts
Originally Posted by 212man
Sadly, as with many topics in this internet age, the links no longer work. It is easy to find details of the accident elsewhere, but not his actual personal story.
I mean, I don't want to be too pushy.... But his story, including Elvis & Skids who he collided with, and Cliff who watched it unfold, and the boy who saw it from the ground, and the famer who found him unconscious face-down in a cow-pat, and (perhaps most movingly) Ian's then 10-yr-old- daughter's memories..... are all pretty well told (even if I say so myself) in a new book.....



John Nichol is offline  
The following 4 users liked this post by John Nichol:
Old 18th May 2023, 16:04
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,256
Received 332 Likes on 185 Posts
Originally Posted by John Nichol
I mean, I don't want to be too pushy.... But his story, including Elvis & Skids who he collided with, and Cliff who watched it unfold, and the boy who saw it from the ground, and the famer who found him unconscious face-down in a cow-pat, and (perhaps most movingly) Ian's then 10-yr-old- daughter's memories..... are all pretty well told (even if I say so myself) in a new book.....

You talked me into it - just ordered!
212man is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by 212man:
Old 18th May 2023, 16:16
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 11,837
Likes: 0
Received 31 Likes on 26 Posts
Five days to go...never in the field of human conflict has so much been anticipated
Kiltrash is online now  
The following users liked this post:
Old 18th May 2023, 16:57
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Threshold 06
Posts: 576
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Ok. I’m convinced. It’s going on order. (39 years in RAF Survival Systems Engineering followed by 11 years with MBA SSE & seat development, makes it a must read for me of course)

Downsizer. I was privileged to be present at his pilot John Peters’ presentation about their GW1 experience a couple of years ago. Suffice it to say it totally changed my outlook on the two of them, It was the most powerful thing I have ever witnessed. It had Mrs OMS in tears. Until I saw that presentation, I also had some reservations about JNs meteoric rise in the meejah, and had also heard some of the crew room ‘banter’, but now what with JPs presentation and seeing JNs thoughtful and honest responses to you, those reservations have just about dissipated.

JN Clearly has a good agent, and I’m still a bit nervous about his alleged ‘bell end exposure’…...But I’m looking forward to a bloody good read. inshe Allah!

Good luck with it, John.

oldmansquipper is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by oldmansquipper:
Old 18th May 2023, 17:45
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: front seat, facing forwards
Posts: 1,156
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by downsizer
You're right, you probably shouldn't!

However since you asked....the shortest answer is, despite never having met or worked with you, I didn't think I liked you.

I joined a couple years after the events referenced in the book and there was certainly a line in various crew rooms that you were a bell end, or a failure, or a big head, or various combinations of similar. Also annoyance at seeing you trotted out on the news etc, etc. These lines were, in clear hindsight, peddled by people who had never even come close to putting themselves into the danger that you and others did in '91. I'm ashamed to admit I accepted those PoVs without any critical thought or analysis and should have realised that if someone raises their head above the parapet then others will take pot shots. So I spent the last 30 years largely discounting anything you said or wrote. I like to think I don't behave like that today.

Now I was gifted the book and thought, I don't want to read this pish (also I spent more time on harriers than tornado), but I took it on holiday with me last summer and I couldn't put it down. I'll admit that parts brought a tear to my eye. I thought it was really well written and thoroughly enjoyed it. I only really understood a fraction of what you and the guys went through till I read it, my career was mostly based around Iraq and Afghan with a bit of ex-Yug thrown in.

Now, you may well be a bell end, I have no idea, but I suspect not! And you can certainly write a good book. And I will no longer trot out tired tropes about you until I've met you to confirm one way or the other!

Hope that makes sense and doesn't offend too much!
If you like Tornado, you should try John's "Spitfire", a truly excellent read.

There's too many books on the history of the mighty Spit so you'd be forgiven for assuming this is just another one but it isn't, John focuses on the people who flew and maintained them and so it's a much more personal story. One of my 'keeper' books.
just another jocky is offline  
The following 4 users liked this post by just another jocky:
Old 18th May 2023, 18:16
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 875
Received 27 Likes on 14 Posts
I remember “Weaves” as a young Observer at Culdrose. When he transferred to you sideways walking folks he was renamed “Wibble” ?
It’s one hell of a tale. As was his recovery.
God speed with the sale of the book John. Looking forward to it.
MENELAUS is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 19th May 2023, 07:22
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 54
Posts: 108
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Book ordered.

Last edited by NIREP reader; 19th May 2023 at 13:42.
NIREP reader is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 19th May 2023, 07:45
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,808
Received 270 Likes on 109 Posts
Hi JN! How well I remember Night 1 of GW1! It came as a total shock to find I was down to lead 3 x VC10K to trail 8 x JP233 Tornadoes to their cast off point, then loiter until they returned post-attack. The weather was difficult and keeping within the narrow speed range for the heavy Tornadoes was quite a struggle. We'd planned to balance up the fuel across our tanker formation whilst waiting for the Tornadoes to return, but the tanker with all the spare fuel had an unserviceable centreline hose. Hence after the 8 x Tornadoes returned, thankfully unscathed, by the time we reached KKIA we were rather low on fuel. To make matters worse, both hoses were stuck at full trail, so a flapless landing was needed...

Fortunately all the Tornado crews with whom we'd worked were fine. But when we saw your pictures in the Daily Mail a couple of days later, we realised what a truly nasty regime we were up against.

Your book looks brilliant, mate!
BEagle is offline  
The following 4 users liked this post by BEagle:
Old 19th May 2023, 07:51
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
The Cough family were asking what I’d like as a Father’s Day present. Apparently an Aston Martin is a bit expensive as it turns out so that may have to wait.

Having read a lot of JN’s other work, I’ve asked for this book and fully expect it will be an excellent alternative - although not as easy to go the shops in.
Tay Cough is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by Tay Cough:
Old 19th May 2023, 08:44
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 875
Received 27 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Tay Cough
The Cough family were asking what I’d like as a Father’s Day present. Apparently an Aston Martin is a bit expensive as it turns out so that may have to wait.

Having read a lot of JN’s other work, I’ve asked for this book and fully expect it will be an excellent alternative - although not as easy to go the shops in.
You should have aimed lower…Ineos Grenadier perhaps. ?
MENELAUS is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 19th May 2023, 08:52
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: England
Posts: 344
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by John Nichol
I probably shouldn't ask.... But why didn't you 'want' to enjoy TORNADO?
Well I certainly am looking forward to reading and enjoying your next book John.
I used to work on supporting the RB199 engines in Tornado and wondered if you would like to share your views on these engines.
Buster15 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 19th May 2023, 09:04
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: London,UK
Posts: 174
Received 81 Likes on 21 Posts
Originally Posted by Tay Cough
The Cough family were asking what I’d like as a Father’s Day present. Apparently an Aston Martin is a bit expensive as it turns out so that may have to wait.

Having read a lot of JN’s other work, I’ve asked for this book and fully expect it will be an excellent alternative - although not as easy to go the shops in.
Excellent choice of gift - (I wouldn't want this thread to become a sales pitch, but in an effort to boost local businesses instead of the usual huge on-line folk) you'll find many local, small bookshops, have access to some of the 5000 copies I pre-signed & also sell on-line.. Support your high street!

Though I would CERTAINLY prefer the Aston Martin......
John Nichol is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by John Nichol:
Old 19th May 2023, 09:12
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: London,UK
Posts: 174
Received 81 Likes on 21 Posts
Originally Posted by BEagle
Hi JN! How well I remember Night 1 of GW1! It came as a total shock to find I was down to lead 3 x VC10K to trail 8 x JP233 Tornadoes to their cast off point, then loiter until they returned post-attack. The weather was difficult and keeping within the narrow speed range for the heavy Tornadoes was quite a struggle. We'd planned to balance up the fuel across our tanker formation whilst waiting for the Tornadoes to return, but the tanker with all the spare fuel had an unserviceable centreline hose. Hence after the 8 x Tornadoes returned, thankfully unscathed, by the time we reached KKIA we were rather low on fuel. To make matters worse, both hoses were stuck at full trail, so a flapless landing was needed...

Fortunately all the Tornado crews with whom we'd worked were fine. But when we saw your pictures in the Daily Mail a couple of days later, we realised what a truly nasty regime we were up against.

Your book looks brilliant, mate!
I remember that first night too Beags. We were coming in to work as the first wave was heading off to the jets. It was just surreal to comprehend we were all going to war. One of my best mates was on that first mission & we couldn't quite believe they all came back. Everyone was expecting losses. My Sqn mentor (Paddy T- fantastic bloke) said to me something along the lines of "the flak looks f-ing bad, but you'll be fine".....

The rest, as they say... is history
John Nichol is offline  
Old 19th May 2023, 09:33
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Cambridge
Age: 55
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 212man
Sadly, as with many topics in this internet age, the links no longer work. It is easy to find details of the accident elsewhere, but not his actual personal story.
It can still be found using the way back machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20130614...omment-page-1/

A very sobering read.
BigDotStu is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.