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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Old 20th Apr 2024, 06:59
  #10121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
DESTROYED: Update on yesterday's AFU OWUAV strike on the "Konteyner" 29B6 OTHR (Over-The-Horizon Radar) in Mordovia, Mordor

«Regarding yesterday's attack on the "Konteynor" over-the-horizon radar located in Mordovia, they (katsaps) whine loudly that the attack was successful and now the station is disabled.

This is the only over-the-horizon tracking radar of its kind, which allowed detecting aerodynamic targets (according to propaganda) at a distance of up to 3,000 km. The loss of this radar will deprive Katsap of intelligence information and the possibility of early detection of tactical strike aircraft.

The factory where the "Container" was produced is already practically closed, and the long-range radar development institute has ceased to exist. This radar was developed over a period of ~ 5 years, and it took ~ 10-15 years to put it into service.» -- ZSU War News



Very sceptical about the utility of this 'RADAR'. Much more likely used as a long range communications broadcast transmitter.
Over the Horizon is notoriously difficult to master as it utilises the ionosphere to literally 'bounce' the radar signals over the horizon and then pick up the target reflections back over the return horizon. The complexities of doing this are enormous since the ionosphere is dynamic and requires real-time modelling using back-scatter sounders, ionospheric depth plotting, weather modelling, mini-radar mapping etc. Then there is the background clutter returned because the radar target return signal also gets mixed with land and sea clutter. Couple that with frequency hopping to compensate for weather conditions, different outbound and return signal distances (ionosphere is dynamic) with the radar return signal strength dropping as an inverse 4th power vs distance. Now couple that with the static TxRx aerials forming an active electronically scanned array. Oh...and did I mention the target is small and also moving fast and likely using ECM jamming to boot! All of this information must be signal processed and data fused in real-time to extract the target information then displayed. The signal frequencies required for OTH are low and hence resolution is not enough to get anywhere a near meaningful track for incoming low flying objects let alone altitude.

All this to say OTH is another Russian tub full of BS.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 07:22
  #10122 (permalink)  
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Satellite imagery released of the destroyed S-400 complex at the Russian held airport, it was well and truly clobbered.

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Old 20th Apr 2024, 08:27
  #10123 (permalink)  
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All this to say OTH is another Russian tub full of BS.
Ask the Australians. They seem satisfied enough with Jindalee to spend a lot on an upgrade.

https://www.australiandefence.com.au...thr-capability

Can’t speak for the Russians, but they’ve been investing and building OHTRs for a long time…..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 08:49
  #10124 (permalink)  
 
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The antenna in the photo has every characteristic of an OTH radar.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 09:27
  #10125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
The antenna in the photo has every characteristic of an OTH radar.
The Su57 is a supposed fifth generation stealth aircraft equivalent to the F22 and F35.

Yes it looks like an OTH array. However,
The Jindalee radar has arrays measured in kilometers and the Ausies started their programme since the 1980's and even earlier with input from the Brits and Americanss and are still developing' it.
​​​​I worked on the signal processing programme in the late 90's.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 09:40
  #10126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uberteknik
The Su57 is a supposed fifth generation stealth aircraft equivalent to the F22 and F35.

Yes it looks like an OTH array. However,
The Jindalee radar has arrays measured in kilometers and the Ausies started their programme since the 1980's and even earlier with input from the Brits and Americanss and are still developing' it.
​​​​I worked on the signal processing programme in the late 90's.
Im only learning about these radars through this war.

As you’ve been out of it for years, what’s your best guess where the technology is today regarding effectiveness?
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 11:17
  #10127 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uberteknik
The Su57 is a supposed fifth generation stealth aircraft equivalent to the F22 and F35.

Yes it looks like an OTH array. However,
The Jindalee radar has arrays measured in kilometers and the Ausies started their programme since the 1980's and even earlier with input from the Brits and Americanss and are still developing' it.
​​​​I worked on the signal processing programme in the late 90's.
Read again the description of the Russian radar. It was designed specifically to be transportable, so any comparison with the Australian system is invalid.

By their very nature OTH radars are extremely easy to identify and locate, so this one will have been an obvious target for Ukraine to destroy.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 12:12
  #10128 (permalink)  
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Basically it’s a version of tbe Chernobyl woodpecker.


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Old 20th Apr 2024, 12:21
  #10129 (permalink)  
 
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Under Project POTEEN, there was going to be an OTHR in the UK, with the transmitter site at RAF St Davids and the receiver site at RAF Blakehill Farm. But with the break up of the Soviet Union at the end of 1991, the Cold War was deemed over and the whole thing was cancelled.....
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 12:35
  #10130 (permalink)  
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US arms should reach Ukraine in under a week following the vote, if it passes.

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Old 20th Apr 2024, 12:46
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Under Project POTEEN, there was going to be an OTHR in the UK
Might want to go ahead with that now, under revised Project PUTEEN.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 14:29
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Originally Posted by kamanya
Im only learning about these radars through this war.

As you’ve been out of it for years, what’s your best guess where the technology is today regarding effectiveness?
Destroyed...
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 17:14
  #10133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Ask the Australians. They seem satisfied enough with Jindalee to spend a lot on an upgrade.

Can’t speak for the Russians, but they’ve been investing and building OHTRs for a long time…..
............. and add China into the mix tho using OTH! I think they are using OTH-Surface Wave rather than Skywave but that's because they don't need the range in the 1000's of miles you get from Skywave. The US are also getting involved out there!

Originally Posted by BEagle
Under Project POTEEN, there was going to be an OTHR in the UK, with the transmitter site at RAF St Davids and the receiver site at RAF Blakehill Farm. But with the break up of the Soviet Union at the end of 1991, the Cold War was deemed over and the whole thing was cancelled.....
....... but the actual physical kit (the ROTHR) destined for installation in the UK, which had virtually been built when the Cx came through, still operates today - near Corpus Christie, Tx against the drug smugglers. It's had a few upgrades as you'd expect over the years but, essentially, that's where it still is.

As Xhorst says, who knows what the future holds............... but "son of ROTHR" is being deployed as we speak!
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 17:51
  #10134 (permalink)  
 
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Watching live on BBC the aid package has passed without amendments with a 311 to 112 7 no votes.. Slava Ukraine.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 18:22
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Originally Posted by Bbtengineer
When you say it’s “your” fault, you are addressing the country of Europe, which doesn’t exist.
Sorry, you are off the mark. You and your behave as both singular and plural pronouns and thus handle collectives well enough. We don't have to resort to Usted and Ustedes.
EU is certainly a You, and most of our NATO allies were/are in the EU (though the Brits bailed out a few years back).
To avoid visual clutter, amplification is in the spoiler. It's for you - the usual short-attention-span audience can't be bothered.
Spoiler
 

As to Greene, she's not my district so go and bitch to someone else about her.

The good news (thank you Uberteknik) is that the grid lock seems to be breaking, unless some other skulduggery arises.
As it's in the realm of politics, there's a chance something else will come up but I am betting that it won't.

Patriots for Ukraine: there's a nice play on words in there, maybe I need to start making T-Shirts.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 18:27
  #10136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uberteknik
Watching live on BBC the aid package has passed without amendments with a 311 to 112 7 no votes.. Slava Ukraine.
Hoo-fecking-ray! About time too.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 19:05
  #10137 (permalink)  
 
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Wouldn't it be nice if all countries made a pledge for continual support, not just one off packages?
I can hear it in the Ukrainian trenches "Okay lads, lets fight the Invaders again, at least until the bombs run out again".
What price all that blood being spilt.
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 19:21
  #10138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uberteknik
Watching live on BBC the aid package has passed without amendments with a 311 to 112 7 no votes.. Slava Ukraine.
unfortunately not quite there yet still have to go though the Senate, however Biden tells Senate to 'quickly send this package to my desk'
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 23:04
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Originally Posted by sealo0
unfortunately not quite there yet still have to go though the Senate, however Biden tells Senate to 'quickly send this package to my desk'
True, but the Senate is all for this aid and there will be no problem passing it; they have previously sent a Ukraine aid bill to the House which didn't act on it. Monday signing maybe?
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Old 20th Apr 2024, 23:37
  #10140 (permalink)  
 
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From the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/20/u...-military.html
Shipments of American weapons could begin flowing to Ukraine again soon after a long-stalled aid package becomes law, U.S. officials say, with goods from the Pentagon’s stockpiles in Germany to be shipped quickly by rail to the Ukrainian border.

The measure would provide the Ukraine war effort with about $60 billion. A sizable amount is set aside to replenish U.S. defense stockpiles, and billions more would be used to purchase U.S. defense systems, which Ukrainian officials say are badly needed.

In a statement on Saturday after the House approved the aid package, President Biden urged the Senate to swiftly take up the measure to help meet Ukrainian forces’ “urgent battlefield needs.” It was expected to do so as early as Tuesday.
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