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Old 4th Apr 2023, 00:54
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
Where would you put it please?
His second mouth?
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 12:02
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Countdown begins
Oh, so you don’t get it! What command? Crew of 11, captain writes on who, captain has overall guidance of what? Silly, if not infantile first post.
Does this 23 year old hear charges, sort family issues out etc etc.
I’d take a seasoned EngO over most aircrew, they have to do people as well as power sets.
Indeed and very true. SEngO manages 120 + people. Flt Lt Aircrew a few less.
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 12:39
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Diff Tail Shim
Indeed and very true. SEngO manages 120 + people. Flt Lt Aircrew a few less.
I have had flts nearly that big! As a Sqn Ldr the biggest sqn I had was 758 - put a shiny in charge!

Last edited by Ninthace; 4th Apr 2023 at 16:12.
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 15:37
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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As once said to me by a very capable, experienced, and professional SNCO....."Officers....making simple stuff (similar wording but cleaned up a bit) difficult for centuries.".

He was crafty enough to be able to let the Officers think they ran things.....and them actually believe it.

He made this Officer a success because I was wise enough to know without his mentoring and protection I would be far less hopeful of a promotion.

As his rating officer I rightly ensured he was seen to not walk on water but actually barefoot water skied on it.

But then I did not have an out of control ego and sense of self importance unlike many I knew during my time in the military.....and met from other militaries.
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 17:38
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
I have had flts nearly that big! As a Sqn Ldr the biggest sqn I had was 758 - put a shiny in charge!
HMF at Cottersmore was 200+ I think. Engineering wise.
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 18:26
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
Where would you put it please?
“Billy basics” old fruit…

Possessives. Form the possessive case of a singular noun by adding 's (even if the word ends in s). Form the possessive case of a plural noun by adding an apostrophe after the final letter if it is an s or by adding 's if the final letter is not an s. Remember: the apostrophe never designates the plural form of a noun.
​​​​​​​SNCO is a noun, is it not?
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 19:32
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet
“Billy basics” old fruit…



SNCO is a noun, is it not?
I fear it is an abbreviation, possibly an acronym.
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 19:47
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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It's certainly NOT an acronym since the abbreviation doesn't form a recognisable word.

Last edited by ExAscoteer2; 4th Apr 2023 at 21:53.
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 21:51
  #149 (permalink)  
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I suggest the we return to the topic.
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Old 5th Apr 2023, 08:09
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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In the army, the officers send the troops into the fight

Tell that to the 37000 JUNIOR Army Officers killed in WW1 !
The life expectancy of a Junior Officer was 6 weeks.

I was a Divisional Officer at Waddo in 1971 - not totally useless as visits to the line were always a break from playing Uckers in the crew room!

Taught me that I definitely did not have leadership qualities as I was far too soft and usually sided with the ‘erks’ against mainly idiot JENGOs !

The best place to meet ‘non aircrew ‘ and find out what was really going on ,on the station ,was on the sports field - where leaders became team captains ,but I think that Wednesday afternoon sports events have ended years ago ? A great pity!
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Old 5th Apr 2023, 08:29
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mahogany bob
In the army, the officers send the troops into the fight

Tell that to the 37000 JUNIOR Army Officers killed in WW1 !
The life expectancy of a Junior Officer was 6 weeks.

I was a Divisional Officer at Waddo in 1971 - not totally useless as visits to the line were always a break from playing Uckers in the crew room!

Taught me that I definitely did not have leadership qualities as I was far too soft and usually sided with the ‘erks’ against mainly idiot JENGOs !

The best place to meet ‘non aircrew ‘ and find out what was really going on ,on the station ,was on the sports field - where leaders became team captains ,but I think that Wednesday afternoon sports events have ended years ago ? A great pity!
The 6 weeks life is an urban myth, perpetuated by an unfortunate book title and some flawed case studies. Please believe me, in this area [and very few others] I do know what I am talking about. No acronyms involved.
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Old 5th Apr 2023, 09:09
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paying Guest
Ditto on the F4 force at Coningsby in the early 70s, with junior aircrew selected who 'showed promise of becoming career officers'. Not sure it was ever very succesful, nor whether the airmen had much confidence in their divisional officers. Certainly the scheme had disappeared by the time I came back to Coningsby in the early 80s.
ditto at Wittering, at least on the two Hunter squadrons. I remember being told if I ever had any problems I had to see Flt Lt ……….. , I don’t recall him ever seeking me out to introduce himself though. Then it all we not quiet and withered away.
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Old 5th Apr 2023, 16:28
  #153 (permalink)  
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Some here evidently find it hard to grasp what T28B asked of you when he deleted a list of posts.

Quit the bickering.

Last chance folks.

Focus on the topic. of the thread.
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Old 6th Apr 2023, 13:47
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mahogany bob
In the army, the officers send the troops into the fight

Tell that to the 37000 JUNIOR Army Officers killed in WW1 !
The life expectancy of a Junior Officer was 6 weeks.
That's sadly what you get for climbing out of a trench first and blowing a whistle so all and sundry knows you are there.
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Old 6th Apr 2023, 14:32
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Please leave the silly 6 weeks claim [Robert Graves] to fiction.

I quote the late Martin Gillott, my good friend, army officer, stockbroker, engineer, mathematician, historian:
The Six Weeks claim, most famously recycled and promoted in John Lewis Stempel's book of that title claims the stats related to the 'bloodiest periods' of the war.

I believe nothing was more bloody than 1914 from the perspective of a Battalion Officers. The Infantry's 1914 Star medal roll captures 5,462 Regular Battalion Officers (not including those on the Staff. Of these some 1,829 became fatal casualties - almost exactly one in every three - and are listed in ODGW. Using the disembarkation dates and their fatal casualty dates it is fairly easy to reconstruct the 'average' time these Officers served before becoming a fatal Casualty

23 weeks and 4 days.

If we limit the study to the 3,201 Subalterns (Lts and 2 Lts represent 59% of all Battalion Officers on the rolls) some 1,145 ultimately became fatal casualties (36% fatality ratio in case you are wondering). The Subalterns of this cohort who died, served from disembarkation to death for an average of...

28 weeks and 4 days

Large sampling indicates the Officers of the 1914-15 Star cohort fared slightly better, although there are large skews depending on which theatre they started in. The fatality ratios and length served before becoming a fatal casualty for those who started on the Western Front is broadly longer to the 1914 Star cohort. I think it simply tells us that being a subaltern in 1915 was just as hazardous as 1914 (similar proportions died) but the later cohorts who died, served for longer before meeting their maker. It does also prove the Six Weeks argument, even if restricted to just those who died, is nonsense. At best it is out by a factor of four.
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Old 6th Apr 2023, 17:18
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like Wiggy is going out with ‘All guns blazing ‘ to increase diversity and that the new CAS is about to be ‘ finally ‘ announced - always good to take over from someone who appears to have been an abject failure?
Let’s hope that an engineer can stoke up the ship and at least sort out morale and the training debacle !

Langley Bastion
re quoted 6 weeks life expectancy for junior officers in WW1 ,your expertise is welcome and reporting accuracy is important - however I think that the point was made - 28 weeks 4 days was not exactly a sinecure!
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Old 7th Apr 2023, 07:47
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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" 28 weeks 4 days was not exactly a sinecure!"

precisely - it was a meat grinder. However - Snr A's grandfather joined up on Day2 and served the whole war through to March 1919 in front line infantry/cavalry/machine gun regiments as a junior officer and came out with nary a scratch. And that included 3 stints at Ypres. Tho depressingly he finished the war about 10 kms from where he started it in Belgium..................
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Old 7th Apr 2023, 12:52
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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RAF boss was ready to ‘test limit of the law’ to improve diversity

Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston told a meeting that ‘all-white, all-male lists of anything are unacceptable’ in leaked transcript

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ove-diversity/



"The head of the Royal Air Force was ready to take diversity drives to the “limit of the law”, according to a leaked transcript of an internal meeting.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston told a virtual meeting of the RAF’s ethnic minority network that “all-white, all-male lists of anything are unacceptable”, according to a document seen by Sky News.

He said he aimed to improve the proportion of ethnic minority recruits from six per cent in 2019 to 20 per cent by 2030, according to Sky.

If the improvements did not happen fast enough towards the end of his tenure, he said, “I'm going to take it as far as I can in the law – right up to the point of quotas and push positive action to the limit of the law.

“We are already taking positive action and I don’t accept honours and awards that aren’t representative of our population.”


Not a verbatim transcript


The document seen by Sky carried a disclaimer that it was not a verbatim transcript of the meeting, held in June 2020, but rather drew on notes taken by staff who were listening “and captures the key aspects from the question-and-answer session”.

Air Chief Marshal Wigston is set to retire from the RAF in June after almost four years in his post.

The RAF has faced questions recently over its approach to diversity in recruitment.

Group Captain Elizabeth Nicholl, the head of the force’s recruitment, resigned in summer 2022 in protest at an alleged order to pause the acceptance of white male recruits on to training courses in favour of women and ethnic minorities.

An RAF spokesman said: “The RAF is constantly reviewing its recruiting practices in order to improve the diversity of its workforce. During the period in question our selection standards did not drop and there was no impact on the operational effectiveness of the RAF.

"However, in hindsight, we accept that despite the best of intentions, some mistakes were made. The RAF is now confident that our approach is correct.”
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Old 7th Apr 2023, 14:29
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
I like the apochryphal tale of the cavalry subaltern being shown a Harrier [not a T] at an Open Day.

Harrier pilot, showing cockpit : ..... "this is my office ........"

Cavalry sub: "but where does the responsible NCO sit?".
Sounds like he must have been related to his counterpart in the WWI Punch cartoon, which I regrettably cannot access at present, with a chinless wonder of a skinny moustachioed cavalry officer, complete with swagger stick and britches, looking at the myriad of pipework in the control room of a submarine, and saying to the burly bearded submarine officer in submarine jersey and seaboots, "I suppose you must have some sort of sergeant Johnny who understands all this stuff".

Jack
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Old 8th Apr 2023, 08:26
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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All I would like to say with the RAF to day, is to have a service that many young men & women would be proud to join. Alas, in my opinion, this is most unlikely, with the present personnel right at the top. Open your eyes guys & girls & get real, forget the seat in the Lords & make the RAF, the service what it used to be & have people banging on your door to join.
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