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Old 8th Apr 2023, 08:49
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure you have it right, A military career is not the vocation it once was for many people joining the forces. They are looking for something different and probably temporary..
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Old 8th Apr 2023, 09:23
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Ninth. Agreed, I suspect the foundations for this attitude were laid a long way back with the 1975 redundancy programme. "Just another job"?
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Old 8th Apr 2023, 10:06
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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When it all changed.

When AVM Mark Green (then AOC 22 Gp) came to RAF Valley in 2010 to talk to everyone about the upcoming SDSR and redundancies he made it clear to us all that his plan was to get rid of the older guys (the QFIs) and spare the students. History will tell us that he didnít get his way and hundreds of students were made redundant.

What did happen though was a generation of very disgruntled students were born and every QFI there realised that they were entirely expendable. Certainly my mindset changed overnight and I knew I could no trust the organisation that I had invested so much time in.

It is no accident that, shortly afterwards, I left Valley and so started a run of three overseas flying tours in different Air Forces, with a brief return to Valley in between. What I learnt, sadly, was that the only times I felt truly appreciated in my 23 years in the RAF was when I was serving in or alongside a foreign Air Force.

Maybe itís because Iím a white male but I learned that nobody in the RAF cared if I stayed so I left to ply my trade elsewhere. And this comes from someone who always assumed I would serve until I was 60.

BV
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Old 8th Apr 2023, 13:10
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
When AVM Mark Green (then AOC 22 Gp) came to RAF Valley in 2010 to talk to everyone about the upcoming SDSR and redundancies he made it clear to us all that his plan was to get rid of the older guys (the QFIs) and spare the students. History will tell us that he didnít get his way and hundreds of students were made redundant.

What did happen though was a generation of very disgruntled students were born and every QFI there realised that they were entirely expendable. Certainly my mindset changed overnight and I knew I could no trust the organisation that I had invested so much time in.

It is no accident that, shortly afterwards, I left Valley and so started a run of three overseas flying tours in different Air Forces, with a brief return to Valley in between. What I learnt, sadly, was that the only times I felt truly appreciated in my 23 years in the RAF was when I was serving in or alongside a foreign Air Force.

Maybe itís because Iím a white male but I learned that nobody in the RAF cared if I stayed so I left to ply my trade elsewhere. And this comes from someone who always assumed I would serve until I was 60.

BV
Bingo. Different circumstances but the exact same kind of reasons that made me PVR.
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 08:40
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
When AVM Mark Green (then AOC 22 Gp) came to RAF Valley in 2010 to talk to everyone about the upcoming SDSR and redundancies he made it clear to us all that his plan was to get rid of the older guys (the QFIs) and spare the students. History will tell us that he didnít get his way and hundreds of students were made redundant.

What did happen though was a generation of very disgruntled students were born and every QFI there realised that they were entirely expendable. Certainly my mindset changed overnight and I knew I could no trust the organisation that I had invested so much time in.

It is no accident that, shortly afterwards, I left Valley and so started a run of three overseas flying tours in different Air Forces, with a brief return to Valley in between. What I learnt, sadly, was that the only times I felt truly appreciated in my 23 years in the RAF was when I was serving in or alongside a foreign Air Force.

Maybe itís because Iím a white male but I learned that nobody in the RAF cared if I stayed so I left to ply my trade elsewhere. And this comes from someone who always assumed I would serve until I was 60.

BV
Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing Bob. Absolutely disgraceful and those at the top wonder where it all went so horribly wrong? I saw the same kind of "progressive and forward thinking" management in the emergency services. Funny how the old dinosaurs also happened to be the "doers"!! We had a VSO who firmly believed that the concept of "morale" was total hokum. He went on to write a book on management practices that espoused this and many other "gems"! Wigston and his ilk do untold damage and have no idea they're doing it!
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 10:01
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Iím pretty sure there were centurions atop Hadrianís wall, bemoaning the quality of their generals, and how much more valued they were before Caesarís dayÖ
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 10:38
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by alfred_the_great
Iím pretty sure there were centurions atop Hadrianís wall, bemoaning the quality of their generals, and how much more valued they were before Caesarís dayÖ
one in ten were decimated
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 10:45
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe the centurions had a point - Roman Empire ain't what it used to be, is it?

The simultaneous "Crown Indemnity" malarkey (do what we tell you, but you'll be hung out to dry if/when anything goes rwong) and catastrophic end of true airworthiness controls in the UK armed forces, along with the actions of serving and former senior officers (remember the House of Lords 'participation' in the vote post-Mull by a MRAF and others?), told me all I needed to know about how I was valued by the Royal Air Force. Fortunately I was able to PVR before any of the illegal wars.
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 14:13
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
one in ten were decimated
Is that one in a hundred?
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 15:09
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
When AVM Mark Green (then AOC 22 Gp) came to RAF Valley in 2010 to talk to everyone about the upcoming SDSR and redundancies he made it clear to us all that his plan was to get rid of the older guys (the QFIs) and spare the students. History will tell us that he didn’t get his way and hundreds of students were made redundant.

What did happen though was a generation of very disgruntled students were born and every QFI there realised that they were entirely expendable. Certainly my mindset changed overnight and I knew I could no trust the organisation that I had invested so much time in.

It is no accident that, shortly afterwards, I left Valley and so started a run of three overseas flying tours in different Air Forces, with a brief return to Valley in between. What I learnt, sadly, was that the only times I felt truly appreciated in my 23 years in the RAF was when I was serving in or alongside a foreign Air Force.

Maybe it’s because I’m a white male but I learned that nobody in the RAF cared if I stayed so I left to ply my trade elsewhere. And this comes from someone who always assumed I would serve until I was 60.

BV
Never easy for a Service when your Lords and Masters ask you to reduce from 38,000 down to 33,000 within 4 years (about 1 in 9 of your work force), thence onto 31,750 from 2015 but with a big buy of shiny new equipment and a flying training system designed for something smaller. A total cluster, you could call it!

On the face of it, the redundancy was done the correct way by slicing down the side of the rank triangle. Really rubbish if you have recently joined, but equally so for those mid career too, but it had to be done that way. I actually made Manning’s job easier by ‘throwing the towel in’ as I found myself something else to do - I wasn’t alone. But, of course there were some that were kept that should have gone and some told to go that the Service should have kept. But getting rid of the old to keep the young - that is a daft idea as you end up with demographic troughs and peaks that shock the workforce balance for years to come. The saddest part was that some held out for redundancy, and when they didn’t get it, they left too, thus making those troughs in the demographic (age and rank) anyway. So that certainly could have been done better by asking for volunteers and then selecting those from the right brackets.

I always laugh out loud when people seem to think that the Service will falter when they leave. The Service really doesn’t care about individuals and really it’s only your buddies and close colleagues that do. In a machine of 31,750 regulars and 3,500 reserves then the only person who can look out for you, and get you where you want to be, is yourself. I learned that fairly shortly after walking out of that dump near Sleaford into the real Air Force. It’s the same outside too, indeed probably far more Machiavellian as well!
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 18:01
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by alfred_the_great
Iím pretty sure there were centurions atop Hadrianís wall, bemoaning the quality of their generals, and how much more valued they were before Caesarís dayÖ
What were the rules on PVR in the Roman Army back in 140 AD? Were there any private companies an experienced Centurion could hire his skill set out to?

FB
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 18:14
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy
What were the rules on PVR in the Roman Army back in 140 AD? Were there any private companies an experienced Centurion could hire his skill set out to?

FB
Tricky, the Dacian War was over and the Parthian Wat had not started. Perhaps private security work?
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Old 10th Apr 2023, 08:46
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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You did your 20 years - and it was a fairly cushy number - they fed you better and more regularly than the rest of the population, they provided the kit and you really didn't fight that often. The accommodation was a cut above what anyone else had- running water, kitchens, bathhouses, sewers. (actually probably better than you get on some UK bases right now).

When you did fight you were in probably the world's best organised outfit.

After you did your 20 they'd give you a plot of land somewhere decent and I think you got a termination bonus. And the lads would have collection for you.

Damn site better than the British Army of say Wellington's time.
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Old 10th Apr 2023, 11:43
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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And they indirectly made it possible for us to watch Prof. Alice Roberts wandering around Vindolanda and the like.
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Old 10th Apr 2023, 13:57
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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I have noticed that not many Romans settled long term in what is now N England - tho' one went off to Algiers I believe where his tombstone still exists - he married a lass from S Shields
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 11:50
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
Is that one in a hundred?
That would be centimated😊
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 12:07
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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That is what I made it, but if one in ten was decimated isn't that a decimated decimation?
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 13:07
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
That is what I made it, but if one in ten was decimated isn't that a decimated decimation?
Agreed. I got the joke and forgot to congratulate you.

However it might be further complicated because I believe that a centurion was himself one in a hundred.

That's a thread drifter's thread drift.
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 13:50
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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I think the term would be centimated but I do not know if that is set in concrete
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 14:08
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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It would be `concremated` then ....
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