Armed Forces will miss Christmas this year to deal with strike fallout, says Rishi Su

[cynicalint]

Military Aid to the Civil Powers (MACP) is one of the defence pillars of responsibility. But, that should only be invoked when the Civil Powers are fully manned and overwhelmed by circumstances that they need aid, to provide assistance beyond their established capabilities. MACP should certainly not be used as a back-stop for Civil Servants or public sector workers striking. There are innumerable examples of MACP being properly used, but strike-breaking should not be one of them.

[The Helpful Stacker]

It's always useful to remind some of the more forgetful folks on here.


But you know, cap doffed, forelock tugged..."humble, most humble, ever-so-humble, Sir's"

[megan]

strike-breaking should not be one of them.

and the Military being asked to forsake an important to family life occasion, Xmas, New Year.

[[email protected]]

Operation DENY CHRISTMAS rolled out once more by a Govt failing to just run the country properly.

[langleybaston]

Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker

It's always useful to remind some of the more forgetful folks on here.


But you know, cap doffed, forelock tugged..."humble, most humble, ever-so-humble, Sir's"

Blushes, shuffles feet, grins foolishly, drops crystal balls and seaweed, exit untidily,

[Cornish Jack]

Stacker - I don't think that you understand the gradations of matters of importance on this forum. Burning pianos on Webers or the essential nature of wearing 'wings' on 'woolly pullys' must always outbid foolish concerns for the treatment of the 'oiks' ! Military Aviation is solely concerned with the importance, well-being and general niff-naff of the sky-gods ... all else is simply peripheral !

[1.3VStall]

Nothing new here chaps. I lost a number of my SNCOs for weeks in the 1970s - manning "Green Goddesses" during the firemens' strike. I seem to recall that the locals were grateful, rather than resentful!

[chevvron]

Civil servants will get overtime, but what about military personnel?

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

Military Aid to Civil Authorities has been used routinely for decades. The (then) RUC were escorted by soldiers in order to continue their beats during the NI Troubles. The firemens strike, Covid, floods, excessive snow and so on.

It's what we signed up for, although personally I wasn't told I'd be driving a fire engine or filling sandbags when I took the Queeen's shilling.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ties-in-the-uk

For the more anal.............

NEO

[trim it out]

Do aircrew do CIMIC/MACA outside of aviation related assistance? Covid testing most recently, firefighting/stacking cow carcass' 20 odd years ago etc?

[Cornish Jack]

There are innumerable examples of MACP being properly used, but strike-breaking should not be one of them.
Exactly so ! However, when the 'Government' is so restricted by incompetence and internal wrangling that inaction is the easier option, turn to those who aren't able to refuse ! And what better time to try to impose those same hamstrings on every other potential 'nuisance' service !

[SASless]

I have no Dog in this fight.

Being an outsider I can see the issues at hand without a lot of investment in any of the many sides clawing for the top of the high moral ground in this.

Christmas is approaching.

Trade Union action is a threat to that joyous time for all.

All...either affect or have the potential to affect participants in Uncle Charles's Flying Club and other chapters of similar allegiance.

All of that is fair meat for the grinder.

As most of you claimed to be Gentlemen and Ladies....today some may be claiming both.....I would think a bit of mutual respect would be part of that.

Key point is a lot of good folks might be required to be away from family as part of their assigned duties not normally assigned this Christmas..

Others are going to be deployed away from home on normal duties.

What say you focus on them and look for ways to support them and their families and leave the politics of all this to a thread in Jet Blast.

A lot of good points being made but are they more appropriately. discussed elsewhere?

[BATCO]

Originally Posted by Cornish Jack

....However, when the 'Government' is so restricted by incompetence and internal wrangling that inaction is the easier option, turn to those who aren't able to refuse !....

Exactly so. The Civil Contingencies Act 2004 places a duty on NHS England and the individual NHS hospital trust, amongst others, to maintain - and when necessary, implement - contingency plans to maintain cover during 'events' (which includes strikes). Such plans should not include reliance on military assistance. The CCA2004 also provides for the Govt to bring proceedings in the High Court (and Court of Sessions) against these organisations for failures. I very much doubt any of the NHS (postal, rail or Border Force) executive will be summonsed.


Batco

[Flyhighfirst]

Originally Posted by Krystal n chips

How about....you also plonk this in JB UK Politics ?....however, as you probably won't, if the Gov't were to start negotiating, offering realistic pay increases, that sort of thing...then everybody could have the Christmas leave....you may be saddened to learn this "strike breaking " probably won't involve marching forwards with fixed bayonets however.

Nurses have been offered 9%. They want 18%. Get real. 9% is realistic. If they then want to try their luck again next year for more go ahead. Nobody in the private sector is getting 9% let alone even dreaming of 18%.

They are going down the wrong path like XR. Once enough of the public has had enough and turn against them the government offer will change. To 2%. They can’t strike forever. Remember they plead that they can’t pay the rent or heat the house and get food on the wages they have so doing all that on zero isn’t going to last long…unless of course the underlying messaging is false.

[cynicalint]

So, the NEW cunning plan is to use Regulars as a last resort, but to call up Reservists first!!!
What happens if the reservist is in a civil occupation that is on strike? The MOD is obliged to pay the reservist, on call-up, the same wage they receive in civvy street - that is going to be expensive. It is hard enough to recruit reservists as it is; this will not make anything any easier. Political own-goal methinks!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...pressure-army/

[SASless]

I love it....Civvie walks....is in the Reserves...gets called up....is ordered to do his Civvie Job and draws a full pay packet while his civil mates are on the Dole at Christmas Time.....won't that make for an interesting exchange of Christmas Greetings!

Would said Reservist qualify for Hazardous Duty Pay on top of his bumped up Military Pay to meet Civvie pay rates?

Only Government could come up with such a cunning plan!

[megan]

The troops always respond when needed. Xmas 1974 the base was on leave and I was pulling the duty of Duty Air Officer for the period, cyclone hit Darwin on the evening of 24th December and flattened the city, call was put out through radio and TV for troops to return and the response was truly remarkable.

https://www.navy.gov.au/history/feat...-tasman-bridge

[EXATCO]

Christmas comes but once a firkin ...

[Brutha]

Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst

Nurses have been offered 9%. They want 18%. Get real. 9% is realistic. If they then want to try their luck again next year for more go ahead. Nobody in the private sector is getting 9% let alone even dreaming of 18%.

I think they’ve been offered around 4-5% (see link below). Close to 9% was offered, and accepted in Scotland.

https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2022...ia-fact-sheet/

[rattman]

Originally Posted by megan

The troops always respond when needed. Xmas 1974 the base was on leave and I was pulling the duty of Duty Air Officer for the period, cyclone hit Darwin on the evening of 24th December and flattened the city, call was put out through radio and TV for troops to return and the response was truly remarkable.

https://www.navy.gov.au/history/feat...-tasman-bridge

In australia reservist can refuse mobilisation for disaster / civil problems, I know that Scummo and Angus Campbell were wanting to change it in 2020 so that they could make it compulsory, I know they tried to amend the defence act so they could make it compulsory and remove the GG from decision making. Not sure if the amendment passed