Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Question. BBC Rogue SAS Heroes series

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Question. BBC Rogue SAS Heroes series

Old 25th Nov 2022, 07:54
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 85
Posts: 2,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We were on one of our SAS re-supply flights to the Western Oman when I took this photo, carrying fuel/tyres, water and food to them every three or four day. The Twin Pin crew lived with the 22 SAS for a month in their tented camp at Ibri and the aircraft was parked with the Trucks and Landrovers. The date was April/May 1960.






Last edited by brakedwell; 25th Nov 2022 at 08:26.
brakedwell is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 08:22
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Southern UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Flugzeug A View Post
In the meantime I'd started using "the other place"

I’m relatively new here , sorry but where is this other place?

If it’s aviation related , I’d like to look please.
Sorry for the drift.
I'll PM you.
Old_Slartibartfast is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 12:08
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Not far offa the dyke....
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 2 Posts
[QUOTE=Old_Slartibartfast;

I remember my grandfather (an RFC pilot from 1916 to 1918) was disparaging about parachutes, saying that he strongly objected to them, even though he was badly burned when he crash landed in late 1917, from the post crash fire (a consequence of having an overhead fuel tank, I think). Not sure when we adopted parachutes as standard kit, probably not that long after WWI, so there must have been a fair bit of knowledge of safe limits by 1941.[/QUOTE]

Parachutes had been in use for British observation balloons both prior to, and during WW1, and had been considered for emergency escape from heavier-than-air powered aircraft by both the Admiralty (from 1915) and the Air Force Board's Parachute Committee (from 1918). But, contrary to much rumour (the oft-quoted line from the Parachute Committee's minutes that it would "impair fighting spirit" was never official policy) it was not until the development of the spring-assisted drogue by Leslie Irvin in 1919 that this was regarded as a practical reality; leading to the first emergency escape from a British aircraft (an Avro 504) by F/O Eric Pentland in 1926.

However, this is something of a red herring; a black version of Everard Calthrop's 'Guardian Angel' static line parachute, dubbed the 'Destroying Angel', had been used to drop agents and troops both in France and the Austro-Italian front throughout the latter half of WW1. But it was not until the instigation of British paratrooping in 1940 that the Statichute, which developed into the X-Type parachute shown in SAS Rogue Heroes, was first introduced; designed by Raymond Quilter of the GQ Parachute Co., in collaboration with Irvin's Irving Air Chute Co., the X-Type became the predominant British paratrooping parachute for at least the next 20 years. Apologies for the thread drift!

Squipdit Fashions is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 13:32
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 85
Posts: 2,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Regarding parachutes, some of the SAS during our detachment at Ibri tried very hard to get me to drop some of them out of our Twin Pioneer free fall while flying very low and as slow as possible. (About 45 mph minus the wind) They reckoned the Tin Pin would be going only a bit faster than a one ton truck, which they had practised jumping out of at speed. I chickened out, knowing the sh*t that would be stirred if anyone got hurt.
brakedwell is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 13:52
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Southern UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by brakedwell View Post
Regarding parachutes, some of the SAS during our detachment at Ibri tried very hard to get me to drop some of them out of our Twin Pioneer free fall while flying very low and as slow as possible. (About 45 mph minus the wind) They reckoned the Tin Pin would be going only a bit faster than a one ton truck, which they had practised jumping out of at speed. I chickened out, knowing the sh*t that would be stirred if anyone got hurt.

In a similar vein, we were doing low level drop trials with a rigid inflatable and SBS troops on Falmouth Bay Range. The aim was to try and get the boat and the troops close enough after landing so they could quickly get in and do the stuff the SBS do. After several goes, where it seemed just a bit too difficult to get the RIB and its crew close enough, it was decided to try putting the crew in the RIB before release, sans parachutes. Somewhere I have a still from one of the range 35mm cine cameras, showing the RIB coming off the ramp of the Herc with little heads just visible over the side. It worked, but I remain convinced that those blokes were complete and utter nutters.
Old_Slartibartfast is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 16:04
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 350/3 Compton
Age: 75
Posts: 612
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
“those blokes were complete and utter nutters.”

Concur! Darn sarth in ‘82, they tried to persuade me that a SHAR drop-tank could be modified to carry a guy with a parachute, who could be “infiltrated” either from level flight or using a loft profile. Mad!

Mog
Mogwi is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 16:45
  #147 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,274
Received 56 Likes on 30 Posts
Originally Posted by Mogwi View Post
“those blokes were complete and utter nutters.”

Concur! Darn sarth in ‘82, they tried to persuade me that a SHAR drop-tank could be modified to carry a guy with a parachute, who could be “infiltrated” either from level flight or using a loft profile. Mad!

Mog
Mog,
Do you know there were some designed for the Harrier and SHAR




And erm..





https://thinkdefence.wordpress.com/2.../01/exint-pod/

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/...d_a_prototype/

BUT IF YOU THINK THAT IS FRIGHTENING

Modification devised by Group Captain Barwell, commanding Biggin Hill in 1943, to enable a Spitfire to carry a couple of passengers. The man-sized canvas bag was laid out along the top of the wing. It had a loop to secure the forward part to the cannon barrel, and it was attached to the trailing edge of the wing inside the flap. It is believed the scheme was never air-tested with a live passenger for want of a necessary volunteer!
However, in WWII, 111 squadron did(I was reliably told by an icelandic man on that squadron) have the same idea While at Maison Blance (spelling?) in North Africa, under attack from the desert rats (Rommel) they devised a plan for evacuating their airfields in a hurry with their Fitter And Rigger (airframe and engine mechanics) fixed to the barrels of their Spitfire Mk Vc in a bag attached to the barrels of the 20mm cannon in their wings! In his autobiograpy he says they even tested this from of transportation
https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-...rk-bags?page=0


NutLoose is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 16:59
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 85
Posts: 2,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This has brought back some memories of living with the SAS at Ibri. We were allocated a time to use the village falaj to wash in daily between 1600 and 1700 by the head man at Ibri. There were two pools along the waddi, connected by a tunnel about 3 feet high and ten feet long. The upstream pool was for men to wash in and the downstream one was used by the women to wash clothes etc. Several SAS comedians used to sit in the mens pool naked, then let go to the side and get washed through the tunnel and say hello to the odd woman, who was washing some clothes. I don't think the locals were too impressed with this show of "force"!.
The Officers and senior NCO's shared a mess tent, which had a sort of bar at one end and there were two men to each tent. I used to sleep in the Twin Pioneer, peacefully, as my Nav, a Master Navigator used to snore horrifically. I remember a bit of rumpus one night in the mess tent, when the RASC sergeant in charge of weapons etc threatened to stop issuing plastic explosives to a couple of officers. When he had to go to the loo, which was a long pole above a trench full of sh*t, the two officers followed him out and pushed him off the pole when he was performing. They came back laughing, but the sergeant climbed out of the sh*t, went to their tent and got in and out of both mens sleeping bags.I felt thankful to be sleeping in the Twin Pioneer!
brakedwell is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 17:07
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,329
Received 12 Likes on 4 Posts
Nothing new though - the Germans developed a 'Personenabwurfbehälter' to be fitted overwing on the Ju87D!
BEagle is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 18:00
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Southern UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I suppose those FJ human delivery systems were no worse than ejecting, but without the big bang. The survival rates from ejections have been very high, even for the older seats without rockets, so in reality a parachute extraction from one of those containers was probably pretty safe.

When I was running a range many years ago the senior pilot had ejected from an F4, following an engine failure (I think) on take-off from a carrier (think it was HMS Eagle). I remember him saying that his first memory was of hanging under the parachute watching his aeroplane sinking. He had no recollection of the ejection at all.
Old_Slartibartfast is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 18:13
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 85
Posts: 2,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What has this got to do with the SAS?
brakedwell is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 18:36
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Threshold 06
Posts: 537
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Jackanory time:

OMS was privileged to work with the regiment in the early 80s. It was before PE had fired the 5lb Chicken at the ‘new’ but unapproved square parachutes that were appearing in the sport parachute world. No MoD money had been allocated for air troop to have any, so the regiments sport fund went out and bought a load whilst we were training on EglinAFB. One of the first in use had been operated at a very high speed on its first use and the trailing edge was blown apart. That night in the bar, The trooper who used it said to me (the equipment SME and engineer) “hey, ‘OMS’ can you repair such damage? How on earth could it be done?” Innocently I replied that it could be, but it would probably require extensive inserts and patching to reinforce the damaged trailing edge…..

I was somewhat shocked the following day on the DZ when said trooper landed using the damaged chute. About 4foot of the trailing edge was held together with sticky back rip stop nylon illicitly ‘borrowed’ from my spares box in the dead of night…

later I ask ‘trooper A’ why he took such a risk?

answer was..”you are the expert, mate…you say it can be done, it can. ….

great guys, happy days…

Last edited by oldmansquipper; 26th Nov 2022 at 22:17.
oldmansquipper is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 19:29
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Southern UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by brakedwell View Post
What has this got to do with the SAS?
The FJ human delivery systems were primarily intended to insert forces covertly in enemy territory. I assume those forces would have been SAS.
Old_Slartibartfast is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 19:53
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 85
Posts: 2,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What exactly is a FJ human delivery system?
brakedwell is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 19:59
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Southern UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by brakedwell View Post
What exactly is a FJ human delivery system?
As shown in the posts by NutLoose . Essentially pods able to hold one person under a wing and allow them to be released with a parachute extraction system. The idea was to be able to covertly deliver SF behind enemy lines without the risk of using relatively slow flying types. SOE used Lysanders to do this in WWII, but they were very vulnerable, being so slow. Doing the same task with a FJ reduces the risk to the A/C significantly.
Old_Slartibartfast is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2022, 20:03
  #156 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,274
Received 56 Likes on 30 Posts
Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Nothing new though - the Germans developed a 'Personenabwurfbehälter' to be fitted overwing on the Ju87D!
They used to stuff up to two Engineers in the tail of the FW190 and panel it back up, there was reports of one in France crash landing after combat instead of bailing out as he had an unfortunate Engineer in the tail.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 26th Nov 2022, 12:06
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 85
Posts: 2,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you Old Startibartfast. I must have left the RAF before FJ human delivery systems were invented, but they sound very dangerous to me!
brakedwell is online now  
Old 27th Nov 2022, 14:46
  #158 (permalink)  
BBK
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 452
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Brakedwell

Great photos there!

I haven’t watched the “Rogue Heroes” series yet but just finished the three part “Rogue Warriors” presented by Ben Macintyre. I only mention it as I’m not sure how long it is available to watch or download. My iPlayer is saying only until next week. It will be interesting to see if I can recognise the storyline of the series from the real events described.
BBK is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2022, 16:40
  #159 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,274
Received 56 Likes on 30 Posts
Brakedwell, it was a shame the Air Atlantique Twin Pin was retired due to being unable to source in life wing struts for it, bar that it was serviceable I believe. It was bought to make a damned camping experience.

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-07-16/...o-holiday-home

.

Last edited by NutLoose; 27th Nov 2022 at 16:53.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 10th Jan 2023, 00:19
  #160 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,274
Received 56 Likes on 30 Posts
Cool news, they are doing a second series and they are heading to Europe.

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a42150...-release-date/
NutLoose is online now  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.