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Question. BBC Rogue SAS Heroes series

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Question. BBC Rogue SAS Heroes series

Old 1st Nov 2022, 14:05
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Question. BBC Rogue SAS Heroes series

Really enjoying it and 4 shows in so far on Sky. The question is in one scene the British Intelligence officer who is Army is seen wearing RAF wings, did the Army pilots during the war wear the same wings? It just looked strange, especially as he was an intelligence officer. Bunch of Bloody nutters BTW, doing a parachute jump without any real training just to see if it could be done, then doing a jump in the middle of a sandstorm.
It is made by the people that were responsible for Peaky Blinders BTW

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...ow_SEG_CRRD%5D
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 14:14
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Won't be watching anymore as my OCD levels of accuracy were sending me into twitches with the inaccuracies and mistakes, and the horror at using 70's/80's rock music for 'effect'.......

I know its only 'entertainment' but......

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Old 1st Nov 2022, 14:17
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You mean like the Dak's windows, did you spot that?
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 14:29
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Nutloose,

JW411 is the man to answer your wings and army question. In his book 'United in effort', the story of 53 Sqn there are a lot of references to Dick Maydwell, a Somerset Light Infantry officer who flew with 53 early in WW2 before transferring to the RAF. There is also a photo that shows an army officer, Major Hannay, and he has RAF wings on his army uniform.

Last edited by Brian 48nav; 1st Nov 2022 at 14:30. Reason: missing comma
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 14:29
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
The question is in one scene the British Intelligence officer who is Army is seen wearing RAF wings, did the Army pilots during the war wear the same wings? It just looked strange, especially as he was an intelligence officer.
There could be a variety of reasons depending on the age of the Army Officer concerned.
The RAF did train a certain number of Army Officers - mainly for Army Co-op squadrons and they would wear RAF Wings.
I have read an autobio by an Army Co-op pilot who managed to transfer to the RAF - ending up on Mustangs and then Typhoon.

An excerpt from Jefford - SOLDIER PILOTS IN THE RAF 1920-41
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...Journal-54.pdf

The stated aim was now merely ‘to produce for army co-operation squadrons a reserve of pilots who are also trained as Army officers’. The Army Council Instruction (ACI) went on to spell out that this involved an individual’s accepting a, now clearly stated, obligation to be recalled to fly with an AC squadron in the event of mobilisation throughout the four years following his return to the Army on completion of his, still four-year, secondment. Throughout that four-year reserve period a pilot was committed to attending an annual fourteen-day ‘refresher’ 145 with an AC squadron. The intake had been reduced to just eight per year, so that the numbers on secondment ‘at any given time will not exceed 32.’ Another very obvious sign of the change in emphasis was that, although officers on secondment were still awarded a temporary commission in the RAF in the rank of flying officer, they were no longer required to wear RAF uniform; they were now to ‘wear the uniform of their corps or regiment, with RAF “wings” on service dress’.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 14:42
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I had a wave of nostalgia with the Rapide. It was the first aeroplane I ever rode in. Dad won two seats in a guess the height competition at an air display at Bassingbourn when I was about 4 or 5. Mum had to stay on the ground and watch.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 14:55
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
You mean like the Dak's windows, did you spot that?
Forget the windows, as we didn't have an Dak's in North Africa in mid-1941.......in fact we didn't have an Dak's anywhere in the RAF in 1941..!!
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 15:06
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Has anyone read Ben McIntyre's book on which this is based? Guessing some liberties have been taken here and there.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 15:18
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
Has anyone read Ben McIntyre's book on which this is based? Guessing some liberties have been taken here and there.

Yes the Beeb have strayed from the authorized history. And therefore the book. And Blair Paddy Mayne was a bigger maniac in the flesh than even they portray him.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 15:19
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
Has anyone read Ben McIntyre's book on which this is based? Guessing some liberties have been taken here and there.
Probably.

I suspect the better book might be the one from 15 odd years ago, written by Gordon Stevens, called 'The Originals', which was based on long filmed/recorded interviews he had done back in the early 80's with the then surviving 'originals' incl Stirling and others such as Reg Seekings, Johnny Cooper, Jim Almonds, Bob Bennett etc.

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Old 1st Nov 2022, 15:22
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
Forget the windows, as we didn't have an Dak's in North Africa in mid-1941.......in fact we didn't have an Dak's anywhere in the RAF in 1941..!!
It is not a documentary and I thought the first episode depicted the characters and events described in Ben Macintyre's excellent book very well. Since there are no Vickers Valentia's about I give the makers credit for using a real period aircraft and not resorting to CG.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 15:29
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The military windows incidentally had round gun ports in them so the pax down the back could defend against air attacks with their rifles!! gulp

This shot shows them

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Old 1st Nov 2022, 15:32
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The character in question is the real life Brigadier - then colonel - Dudley Clarke who joined the army during WWI and then transferred to the RFC, had flight training and then moved back to the Royal Artillery. It's RFC wings he's wearing. I was curious myself for the same reason and looked him up in Wikipedia!
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 15:34
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Thank you all for the answers and thank you Heid.... Welcome to the forums as well.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 16:22
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Unfortunately none of the transport types they had at the time are still around - even in museums as far as I’m aware.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 16:38
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Unfortunately none of the transport types they had at the time are still around - even in museums as far as I’m aware.
Presumably excluding the Dominie/Rapide, transporting passengers at least.

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Old 1st Nov 2022, 16:39
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Originally Posted by MENELAUS View Post
Yes the Beeb have strayed from the authorized history. And therefore the book. And Blair Paddy Mayne was a bigger maniac in the flesh than even they portray him.
My suspicions were raised when they showed Stirling in cahoots with Mayne and Jock Lewes. I wasn't aware that in real life they were known to each other before 'L Detachment' was formed.

I hope the BBC don't take too many liberties; it was already a perfectly good story without the need to use artistic license.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 17:00
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown View Post
It is not a documentary and I thought the first episode depicted the characters and events described in Ben Macintyre's excellent book very well. Since there are no Vickers Valentia's about I give the makers credit for using a real period aircraft and not resorting to CG.
I do my best!

CG
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 21:04
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Originally Posted by Heid View Post
The character in question is the real life Brigadier - then colonel - Dudley Clarke who joined the army during WWI and then transferred to the RFC, had flight training and then moved back to the Royal Artillery. It's RFC wings he's wearing. I was curious myself for the same reason and looked him up in Wikipedia!
Which is why I posted this line

There could be a variety of reasons depending on the age of the Army Officer concerned
But just to add to my earlier post
Just some of the Army pilots attached to the RAFin 1943 -
2770 SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 18 JUNE, 1943

Pit. Offs. to be Fig. Offs. (war subs.). I9th Feb. 1943: — D. T. ARGENT (Lt. R. Fus.) (49592). G. C. BENSUSAN (Lt. P. Corps.) (49593). A. B. BRENTNALL (Lt. Lan. Fus.) (49595). J. T. BURKE (Lt. Oxf. & Bucks L.I.) (49597)-R. S. CLARK (Lt. R. Signals) (49598). A. H. GREENHALGH (2nd Lt. R.A.) (49603). R. P. HOWE (2nd Lt. Essex R.) (49604). D. L. HURFORD (2nd Lt. R.A.C.) (49605). D. H. G. INCE (2nd Lt. R.A.) (49606). W. M. INGRAM (Lt. K.S.L.I.) (49607). K. O. JENKINS ('Lt. K.O.R.R.) (49608). J. D. KEIGHTLEY (Lt. R.A.) (49609). R. S. W. KEMP (2nd Lt. R.A.C.) (49610). J. R. P. KENNEDY (2nd Lt. A. & S.H.) (49611). R. I. MACKINTOSH (Lt. R.A.) (49614). J. W. W. METCALFE (Lt. R. North'd Fus.) (49615). P.*D. MITCHELL (Lt. (tempy. Capt.) Surrey R.) (49616). K. S. MORRIS (2nd Lt. R.A.) (49617). E. J. PACKWOOD (Lt. R.W. Fus.) (49618). T. S. RAYNER (Lt. Bedfs. & Herts R.) (49620). I. A. L. STEWART (Lt. A. & S.H.) (49623). R. G. WEST (2nd Lt. R.A.) (49625). H. B. GRYNKIEWICZ (2nd Lt. General List) (49628). 20th Feb. 1943.
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 00:46
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Depending on your podcast source, the tv series is interestingly discussed by Al Murray and James Holland as one of their ‘We Have Ways of Making You Talk’ episodes;
”James and Al give their thoughts on what they got right, what they got wrong and whether overall the show is faithful to the spirit of the events.”

Here is the Spotify link…

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yd...SlCxW5zZ-xLSlA
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