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Question. BBC Rogue SAS Heroes series

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Question. BBC Rogue SAS Heroes series

Old 8th Nov 2022, 12:31
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At the time that this was set, my late father was in the first siege of Tobruk, wounded there, and then spent time in the desert thereafter, (before being posted to India and Burma). He came across some of the Long Range Desert Group, (in circumstances he would not talk about,) and told me that they were a bunch of maniacs. He said he would believe ANYTHING reported of them, no matter how seemingly crazy, criminal, impossible or stupid.

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Old 8th Nov 2022, 13:22
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Originally Posted by lightonthewater View Post
At the time that this was set, my late father was in the first siege of Tobruk, wounded there, and then spent time in the desert thereafter, (before being posted to India and Burma). He came across some of the Long Range Desert Group, (in circumstances he would not talk about,) and told me that they were a bunch of maniacs. He said he would believe ANYTHING reported of them, no matter how seemingly crazy, criminal, impossible or stupid.
Even today, the people who are engaged in these sort of roles are maniacs, as normal people are unlikely to want do them!

I'm just grateful we have them on our side.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 13:42
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Originally Posted by lightonthewater View Post
At the time that this was set, my late father was in the first siege of Tobruk, wounded there, and then spent time in the desert thereafter, (before being posted to India and Burma). He came across some of the Long Range Desert Group, (in circumstances he would not talk about,) and told me that they were a bunch of maniacs. He said he would believe ANYTHING reported of them, no matter how seemingly crazy, criminal, impossible or stupid.
Trouble is - people are quick to say 'it's not a documentary' - but the programme was made using real peoples names and this one in particular seemed intent on blackening Paddy Maynes character and perpetuating some myths about his miltary career,he was indeed a complex person but apparently well educated,well read and planned things out very carefully when possible.Sure he was no angel but I think it very unfair to present a role in a TV series using real peoples names and not to present the true facts - or at least not exaggerate character to over dramatise the role/narrative.
With the SAS/LRDG there was no need to exaggerate anything,real events were exciting enough.The action scenes I thought were reasonably accurately presented
Not a new thing with film makers of course - one of the worst being how Private Hook was portrayed in 'Zulu' - his family were really upset by it.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 15:01
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When I was on 152 Sqn in Bahrain from 1959 to 1961 I used to fly a Twin Pioneer to near the top of the Jebel Akhdar in Oman to the Sultans Armed Forces camp at Saiq where ex SAS Major John Cooper was the CO. According to regs, set by RAF Persian Gulf, we were not allowed to shut down our engines on the top of the Jebel in case we had any starting problems. Night stopping at Izmir, lower down, was hot and boring, and the risk of land mines was dangerous, so quietly I began to night-stop at Saiq. From around 1400 when the hot air became too rough and dangerous for further lifts into Saiq until 0700 the next morning. Many enjoyable evenings spent with John, the only European, at Saiq, having a few cold beers are still very happy memories.


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Old 8th Nov 2022, 15:20
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As a side note, I’ll mention the less well known Popski’s Private Army
My father had one of the books on the PPA, which I read avidly (and often!) in my youth.
Lieutenant-Colonel Vladimir Peniakoff DSO MC, I salute you and your men.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 15:22
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In 1967 I was working as a civil engineer at Misurata in Libya. As part of my team I had four chainmen (these are the chaps who hold the staff while the engineer fiddles about with his theodolite). Being Arabia they were all called Mohammed so I named them wahed, thnene, telleta and arraba which is as near as I ever got to one to four in Arabic. Anyway one day "Number 3", who was a tall well-built chap, came to the site hut and asked for four days leave to go to Benghazi, so i signed his chit and off he went. He duly reappeared four days later looking rather dishevelled and considerably paler than when he left. When i asked him what had happened his reply was "They still daft bastards,they still drink too much !". "They" turned out to be the SAS who were passing through Libya,possibly via El Adem (?) and had decided to have a get-together with some of the Arab desert scouts of the LRDG of whom "Number 3" was one. Apparently his speciality was inserting explosive devices in Rommel's kit,, lighting the blue touch paper and melting away in to the desert..I must confess I viewed him a different light thereafter (and he was a good chainman!).
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 15:49
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I find the offense to swearing amusing, as if it somehow just appeared in the last decade or two! The fact that more traditional movies etc donít include it by no means reflects reality. https://www.bl.uk/world-war-one/articles/swearing
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 17:07
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
Trouble is - people are quick to say 'it's not a documentary' - but the programme was made using real peoples names and this one in particular seemed intent on blackening Paddy Maynes character and perpetuating some myths about his miltary career,he was indeed a complex person but apparently well educated,well read and planned things out very carefully when possible.Sure he was no angel but I think it very unfair to present a role in a TV series using real peoples names and not to present the true facts - or at least not exaggerate character to over dramatise the role/narrative.
With the SAS/LRDG there was no need to exaggerate anything,real events were exciting enough.The action scenes I thought were reasonably accurately presented
Not a new thing with film makers of course - one of the worst being how Private Hook was portrayed in 'Zulu' - his family were really upset by it.
I would read the titles that it is mainly based on events that happen. So therefore is not a documentary. Of course Mayne was intelligent, he played Union for a start. But it was mentioned in the documentary shown 5 years ago they he was almost psychopathic in his tendanciies. That was from guys that served with him. .
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 19:05
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Saintsman @ 82
If you had worked with, and knew any of " the people who are engaged in these sort of roles are maniacs" you would know you are talking B******s.
Doing things that you and I would not have the guts to do does NOT make them maniacs!!
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 19:36
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Originally Posted by Diff Tail Shim View Post
I would read the titles that it is mainly based on events that happen. So therefore is not a documentary. Of course Mayne was intelligent, he played Union for a start. But it was mentioned in the documentary shown 5 years ago they he was almost psychopathic in his tendanciies. That was from guys that served with him. .
Well that is completely missing my point mon ami - the whole sequence of Paddy in prison was complete BS - as I posted earlier,if a writer uses the real names of real people they should do proper research and not overdramatise any scenes around that particular character.
I think it is totally out of order to darken the character of the holder of DSO*** (ie 4 DSO's).
The myths around the man have grown over the years - he certainly was unorthodox about certain things but as I also posted previously - there was absolutely no need to exaggerate any of the SAS/LRDG story.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 19:46
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Originally Posted by Tengah Type View Post
Saintsman @ 82
If you had worked with, and knew any of " the people who are engaged in these sort of roles are maniacs" you would know you are talking B******s.
Doing things that you and I would not have the guts to do does NOT make them maniacs!!
Indeed. I have two close colleagues, one an MC and one an MC and CGC. Neither are maniacs.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 19:47
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So who is being accused of fabrication of "Paddy" Mayne being recruited in prison? The story is in David Stirling's biography.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 20:01
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Originally Posted by Kent Based View Post
So who is being accused of fabrication of "Paddy" Mayne being recruited in prison? The story is in David Stirling's biography.
Not being in prison but the extreme violence in prison as displayed during the early part of the series.
I believe that Paddy Maynes own CO cast doubt on his ever having been in prison,Paddy was in trouble for a contretemps with a fellow officer but I am not sure he ever went to prison for it.
Happy to be convinced otherwise - there would be a record of a court martial surely ?
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 20:19
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Paddy Mayne
From Army Unit Histories

2nd Lt. 06.03.1939 [87306]
WS/Capt. 21.12.1942
T/Maj. 21.12.1942-06.04.1944
WS/Maj. 07.04.1944
T/Lt.Col. 07.04.1944-(04.1946)
DSO 24.02.1942 Middle East *
DSO 21.10.1943 Sicily
DSO 29.03.1945 France 44
DSO 11.10.1945 NW Europe 44-45
LegH ? ?
CdeG ? ?
MID 24.02.1942 Middle East
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 20:20
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
in trouble for a contretemps with a fellow officer
The trouble is there are various versions. Some say Mayne "beat up" or "assaulted" the other officer.

Stirling's version was that he recruited Mayne in prison. Doubt has been cast on this by others since. Regardless the writers of this series didn't invent the prison story to blacken Mayne's character. They have followed the Stirling version after all, he was there?
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 20:27
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I doubt Stirling wrote that the prison staff were going to hang Mayne but Paddy beat them all up and walked out.
Surely any officer placed under arrest would normally be confined to room/tent until the decision to CM or 'extra duties' was taken,I suppose under extreme circumstances he might have been put in the guardhouse ?.
I have not read stirling's book so cannot comment on that but there are wildly conflicting stories out there.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 20:39
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
but there are wildly conflicting stories out there.
Indeed. Stirling's version was that he sought assurance from Mayne that he wouldn't assault him too! Of course no one now knows if that was all just banter?
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 22:31
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Originally Posted by Kent Based View Post
Stirling's version was that he recruited Mayne in prison. Doubt has been cast on this by others since.
David Stirling had a bit of a reputation for telling tall stories. Especially involving himself.
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Old 9th Nov 2022, 14:07
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Thumbs down Historically inaccurate

Anybody notice Paddy Mayne stating that he was going to Burma to fight the Japs ,bit previous as the Japanese had not entered the war in autumn 1941!
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Old 9th Nov 2022, 15:40
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To clarify my late father's remarks on the LRDG members: he used the word 'maniac' in the sense that they must have been mad to do what they did, in the way that they did it. (My father knew what he was talking about: he had himself won the MC in the desert at Tobruk just before his 21st birthday by capturing 3 machine gun posts with just 6 men remaining from an initial attacking force of over 100 men.)
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