UKMFTS Failing to Deliver...again
John Healey, Shadow Secretary of State for Defence, asked the Secretary of State for Defence:
“What steps his Department is taking to ensure that the disruption to the UK Fast Jet training is minimised over the next three years.”
James Heappey, Minister of State for the Ministry of Defence, responded:
“Measures being considered include sending further trainees to the NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training programme in the USA; accelerating planning for No 11 Squadron (Joint Qatar/UK Squadron) at RAF Leeming to train RAF pilots from late 2022 until 2027; and working with allies and partners to examine whether UK pilots could be trained overseas, or where we might pool our resources, to mutual benefit.”
“What steps his Department is taking to ensure that the disruption to the UK Fast Jet training is minimised over the next three years.”
James Heappey, Minister of State for the Ministry of Defence, responded:
“Measures being considered include sending further trainees to the NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training programme in the USA; accelerating planning for No 11 Squadron (Joint Qatar/UK Squadron) at RAF Leeming to train RAF pilots from late 2022 until 2027; and working with allies and partners to examine whether UK pilots could be trained overseas, or where we might pool our resources, to mutual benefit.”
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James Heappey, Minister of State for the Ministry of Defence, responded:
“Measures being considered include sending further trainees to the NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training programme in the USA; accelerating planning for No 11 Squadron (Joint Qatar/UK Squadron) at RAF Leeming to train RAF pilots from late 2022 until 2027; and working with allies and partners to examine whether UK pilots could be trained overseas, or where we might pool our resources, to mutual benefit.”
“Measures being considered include sending further trainees to the NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training programme in the USA; accelerating planning for No 11 Squadron (Joint Qatar/UK Squadron) at RAF Leeming to train RAF pilots from late 2022 until 2027; and working with allies and partners to examine whether UK pilots could be trained overseas, or where we might pool our resources, to mutual benefit.”
Spoiler - its an Adour 951.
The bit about pooling our resources is also a good one, what have we got that we could pool, other than a few instructors ? About as much use as pooling maritime resources after we'd binned Nimrod.
"Sounds like they are now allowed to tailor the buy to meet the budget constraints and accept shortfalls rather than procure properly with a plan that works."
i'm afraid its been like that since at least the 1960's
i'm afraid its been like that since at least the 1960's
CAEBr
I think you may find the problem with the 951 is age (hours) related. The 11 Sqn (and other foreign customers) jets are much younger than the RAF T2s. Hence the problem is potentially not quite so pressing.
BV
BV
I agree, and I was somewhat tongue in cheek. However, if the RAF become the prime user in effect of the Mk167s the usage rate will increase beyond that of the other late export 951 engined fleets. Also, as with the uncontained 871 failures experienced by the USN and the RAAF, even if age/usage plays a part it is not the only element.
former RAF W/C and ENJJPT instructor critical of ENJJPT
With regard to the shortage that is becoming, a former Wing Commander is critical of sending our studes to Sheppard and reckons be better off training down under as they have the Hawk T2 and their procedures similar to ours. He himself was exchange instructor at ENJJPT
https://www.key.aero/article/ex-raf-...ning-programme
'He said in written evidence: “The problem with the training at ENJJPT is that it is based on the United States Air Force philosophy of training. At ENJJPT the flying is strictly regimented. Students must comply exactly with the manual’s way of flying. If they do, they pass the course, if not they fail.'
cheers
https://www.key.aero/article/ex-raf-...ning-programme
'He said in written evidence: “The problem with the training at ENJJPT is that it is based on the United States Air Force philosophy of training. At ENJJPT the flying is strictly regimented. Students must comply exactly with the manual’s way of flying. If they do, they pass the course, if not they fail.'
cheers
I understand that the Mk 127 has suffered availability issues including a 3 week fleet grounding in May/June 2019 following an engine issue. Having chosen to upgrade the Hawks instead of replacing them, as part of the upgrade 'The aircraft will now receive an engine upgrade to the latest Rolls-Royce Adour Mk951 standard common to the UK RAF’s Hawk T2 which should alleviate some of the engine issues and poor availability the fleet has suffered in recent years.' (Source: Australian Defence Business Review February 21, 2022)
(apologies for the repetitive 'upgrade')
(apologies for the repetitive 'upgrade')
'He said in written evidence: “The problem with the training at ENJJPT is that it is based on the United States Air Force philosophy of training. At ENJJPT the flying is strictly regimented. Students must comply exactly with the manual’s way of flying. If they do, they pass the course, if not they fail.'
With regard to the shortage that is becoming, a former Wing Commander is critical of sending our studes to Sheppard and reckons be better off training down under as they have the Hawk T2 and their procedures similar to ours. He himself was exchange instructor at ENJJPT
https://www.key.aero/article/ex-raf-...ning-programme
'He said in written evidence: “The problem with the training at ENJJPT is that it is based on the United States Air Force philosophy of training. At ENJJPT the flying is strictly regimented. Students must comply exactly with the manual’s way of flying. If they do, they pass the course, if not they fail.'
cheers
https://www.key.aero/article/ex-raf-...ning-programme
'He said in written evidence: “The problem with the training at ENJJPT is that it is based on the United States Air Force philosophy of training. At ENJJPT the flying is strictly regimented. Students must comply exactly with the manual’s way of flying. If they do, they pass the course, if not they fail.'
cheers
He added: “The RAF sent four students per year to ENJJPT. When the students returned to the UK the intention was for them to fly a 30-hour orientation course and then go to weapons training. Unfortunately, the ENJJPTS training did not meet the entry standards for Tactical Weapons Training and the students had to complete almost all the RAF’s Advanced Fast-Jet Training syllabus to meet the standard. As a result, the UK withdrew from ENJJPT after a few years. Nothing will have changed. Sending students to ENJJPT will therefore not alleviate the problems caused by the shortage of Hawk aircraft.
“The ENJJPT solution is attractive because it is simplistic and probably the cheapest option. The fact that it will not solve the problem and end up as a waste of resources, student training time and taxpayers’ money will, on past evidence, be ignored by the MOD. This must not be allowed to happen.
“A better solution would be to investigate sending students to the Royal Australian Air Force for Advanced Fast-Jet Training. They use a version of the Hawk similar to the RAF’s T2 and their philosophy towards training is akin to ours. On completion of Advanced Fast-Jet Training the students could either return to the UK for the tactical weapons phase (carried out on the Hawk that they are already qualified on) or, if it was found suitable, complete the Australian weapons course.”
This was the more interesting bit of the article...
He added: “The RAF sent four students per year to ENJJPT. When the students returned to the UK the intention was for them to fly a 30-hour orientation course and then go to weapons training. Unfortunately, the ENJJPTS training did not meet the entry standards for Tactical Weapons Training and the students had to complete almost all the RAF’s Advanced Fast-Jet Training syllabus to meet the standard. As a result, the UK withdrew from ENJJPT after a few years. Nothing will have changed. Sending students to ENJJPT will therefore not alleviate the problems caused by the shortage of Hawk aircraft.
“The ENJJPT solution is attractive because it is simplistic and probably the cheapest option. The fact that it will not solve the problem and end up as a waste of resources, student training time and taxpayers’ money will, on past evidence, be ignored by the MOD. This must not be allowed to happen.
“A better solution would be to investigate sending students to the Royal Australian Air Force for Advanced Fast-Jet Training. They use a version of the Hawk similar to the RAF’s T2 and their philosophy towards training is akin to ours. On completion of Advanced Fast-Jet Training the students could either return to the UK for the tactical weapons phase (carried out on the Hawk that they are already qualified on) or, if it was found suitable, complete the Australian weapons course.”
He added: “The RAF sent four students per year to ENJJPT. When the students returned to the UK the intention was for them to fly a 30-hour orientation course and then go to weapons training. Unfortunately, the ENJJPTS training did not meet the entry standards for Tactical Weapons Training and the students had to complete almost all the RAF’s Advanced Fast-Jet Training syllabus to meet the standard. As a result, the UK withdrew from ENJJPT after a few years. Nothing will have changed. Sending students to ENJJPT will therefore not alleviate the problems caused by the shortage of Hawk aircraft.
“The ENJJPT solution is attractive because it is simplistic and probably the cheapest option. The fact that it will not solve the problem and end up as a waste of resources, student training time and taxpayers’ money will, on past evidence, be ignored by the MOD. This must not be allowed to happen.
“A better solution would be to investigate sending students to the Royal Australian Air Force for Advanced Fast-Jet Training. They use a version of the Hawk similar to the RAF’s T2 and their philosophy towards training is akin to ours. On completion of Advanced Fast-Jet Training the students could either return to the UK for the tactical weapons phase (carried out on the Hawk that they are already qualified on) or, if it was found suitable, complete the Australian weapons course.”
Solutions
I know of an Air Force that operates exactly the same mark of Hawk as the RAF (actually there are two but I can only vouch for one) that could have provided some spare capacity to train UK pilots. The course is almost identical (actually better), the airspace is vast and the standard of training could be excellent. Albeit IMC time would have been very limited. But, of course, CFS knows best.
As for NFTC, I can also vouch for that. However, CFS once again decided a few years back that it was also not suitable. Though quite how they then came to the conclusion that ENJPPT was suitable is beyond me. It’s the least suitable of all the options but then maybe it was cheaper. Admittedly with the kind of flying we do nowadays the disadvantages of ENJPPT may not be quite so impactful.
BV
As for NFTC, I can also vouch for that. However, CFS once again decided a few years back that it was also not suitable. Though quite how they then came to the conclusion that ENJPPT was suitable is beyond me. It’s the least suitable of all the options but then maybe it was cheaper. Admittedly with the kind of flying we do nowadays the disadvantages of ENJPPT may not be quite so impactful.
BV
Last edited by Bob Viking; 22nd Apr 2023 at 00:17.
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Flying the jet that we should have bought instead of the Mk 2 offering of Bungling Baron Waste-O’Space and the underhand dabbling of quadruple-chinned “2 Jags” Prescott to buy votes in his constituency (allegedly).
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What's Italian For ?
...
What's Italian for "Follow me through, Smith-Barry - You have control." ?
Five months at the NATO Language School in Rome ??
Because he's expecting to be appointed Commandant of above School.
LFH (cfs)
What's Italian for "Follow me through, Smith-Barry - You have control." ?
Five months at the NATO Language School in Rome ??
"Why on earth would Wigston look so pleased ... ?
LFH (cfs)
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The PM today announced the opening of a “new Military Flying School” to begin the training of Ukranian pilots.
Anyone know where, with what?
Anyone know where, with what?
