Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

UKMFTS Failing to Deliver...again

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

UKMFTS Failing to Deliver...again

Old 15th Aug 2022, 11:49
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,317
Received 622 Likes on 270 Posts
Judging by what I read in this thread and others, something has gone wrong with the higher direction of the RAF, very sad personally for me, even without a dog in the fight.
Not dealing with the top heavy rank structure whilst hollowing out the numbers at the coal face would be a starter for 10.

Then competition for VSO positions and promoting those in their own image, ridiculously short tours to meet the ability to be MRAF before retiring - claimed to be 'broadening'.

Successive 'initiatives' to streamline flying training, usually from those who know little about it - what a mate of mine referred to as the 'Senior Officers Good Ideas Club'.

All the time reducing the number of front-line seats available. Overstretch with Ops taking assets from OCUs.

The list goes on and on.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2022, 13:51
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,720
Received 2,720 Likes on 1,156 Posts
The thing I cannot get my head around is a lot of them will have gone through the system, therefore why are they screwing around with what worked, my only assumption is so they can bolster their employment chances post RAF to the detriment of the Service.

I would like to see a ban on all senior officers holding posts in companies related to their dealings whilst in service for a period of say 5 years minimum to prevent a conflict of interests..
NutLoose is online now  
Old 15th Aug 2022, 14:27
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Threshold 06
Posts: 576
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Red face

Nutloose - fat chance!

Here’s just one example of why not.

I recall as part of an Contract Maintenance Audit team, I had cause to to issue a ‘Cat 2’ non compliance report on a well known civilian contractor at a flying training base somewhere oop norf.

suffice it to say the AP100b Engineering Orders (which, you may have been familiar with) was at best being deliberately misinterpreted to reduce staffing levels below what was in the contract, so that profit was being maximised.

Anyway…when my team leader (A Wg Cdr Engineer) took my report he said “That’s all very well, but I am not going to mention this……”. Should have formed part of the wash up and out brief to the Civilian Contract manager (O.C. Eng equiv) Fair enough? His prerogative as team leader, I guess. His signature.

The said Wg Cdr then left the service shortly after, and, allegedly, walked straight into a senior engineering job with…you’ve guessed it….the very same Maintenance Contractor.

same old same old….






oldmansquipper is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2022, 16:01
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 856
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Perhaps we need to broaden that employment ban to all ex civil servants and politicians to 5 years rather than the few months it is at the moment?
hunterboy is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2022, 21:17
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baston
Posts: 3,241
Received 614 Likes on 222 Posts
Originally Posted by hunterboy
Perhaps we need to broaden that employment ban to all ex civil servants and politicians to 5 years rather than the few months it is at the moment?
Worth a punt, but at what level does the ban start? One star and equivalent? Below that there is not a lot of clout and only partial expertise/ insider networking.

Or was I kept out in the cold? Glad to walk away, but miffed not to be head-hunted!
langleybaston is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2022, 12:01
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 608
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
What is needed is to take it all back in house as it was in my day. What was a cynical political measure to be able to say "We've reduced the size of the military and saved x billions of pounds" always failed to mention that these military jobs were now outsourced at an extra cost of x billions of pounds. Stop messing about with what should be purely a military organisation and make it fit for purpose again.
Doctor Cruces is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2022, 14:40
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Threshold 06
Posts: 576
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by charliegolf
I'm 65. I reckon I could ride a c15 in the morning and a superbike after lunch. Safely. Having only a Honda 50 in my quiver.

CG
totally agree. Back in the last century, I had a BSA Bantam 125 which I chopped in for a BSA c10 250. No problem then. But I didn’t ride bikes for the next 40 years, only becoming a born again biker on my retirement. Still with a full licence, I wisely did a refresher course with an ex RLC instructor (excellent chap called Arthur) on a Honda 500. His brief to me before I rode a bike for the first time in 40 years was..

” you may find things have changed a bit,…remember though the gear change has changed sides as has the back brake pedal…and talking of brakes….they actually work. But it’s a just a bike..enjoy!”
oldmansquipper is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2022, 15:01
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: York
Posts: 624
Received 23 Likes on 14 Posts
https://news.sky.com/story/raf-pause...rgets-12674409
dctyke is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2022, 20:01
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 2,164
Received 46 Likes on 22 Posts
Words fail me when it comes to Wiggy.
Just This Once... is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2022, 10:59
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 4,787
Received 7 Likes on 3 Posts
The whole system is broken, and it's not just to do with MFTS. Ascent can't keep instructors, but when you see what they have to go through, you will understand why. An ex-colleague who worked for them for two years before quitting mentioned in the modern risk-averse RAF, it was easier to get a B747 with 400 passenger from London to Hong Kong that it is to get a Prefect airborne from Cranwell for an hour long instructional sortie.
Dan Winterland is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2022, 13:07
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,795
Received 270 Likes on 109 Posts
Ah but Dan, you have to remember that (as I was once told), the level of bull$hit is inversely proportional to the importance of the aircraft!

After I finished the CFS course, a Bulldog had to be collected/swapped with another at (I think) Topcliffe. All the instructors were busy, so I said I'd be happy to do the trips. There then followed much sucking of teeth - I was no longer a CFS student, so they couldn't find a rule which would allow me to do that simple trip. So no-one would authorise it! "In which case I might as well bug ger off home", I said..... So I did!

6 months earlier, I'd been pre-authorised to fly a VC10K3 to Hawaii and back. Yet in Learning Command no-one would authorise a basic landaway from Lincolnshire to Yorkshire and back.....

Last edited by BEagle; 17th Aug 2022 at 19:57.
BEagle is online now  
Old 17th Aug 2022, 17:42
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 897
Received 10 Likes on 6 Posts
About the "pause": there are two ways of getting rid of a queue. either you increase the rate of people leaving it, or you reduce the rate of people joining it.

Mathematically, if the rate joining is greater than the rate leaving, the queue grows at a rate given by the ratio between the two. (E.g. if one person is processed an hour, and two people arrive every hour, the queue grows by one person per hour.) If the rate joining is less, it shrinks. If they are equal the queue remains at its current size. If a queue exists and isn't growing or shrinking, this tells us that the rates are currently equal but a backlog developed at some point in the past. To get rid of it you have to process people (or whatever) faster than they arrive, so that you're both dealing with the arrivals and working through the backlog.

Seeing as close to half the total capacity is being used to refresh people stuck in the queue, it makes a lot of sense to turn the tap off until the queue can be cleared, and it's something that can be done much quicker than adding more capacity. In fact, given how fast a queue can grow and the fact that adding more capacity takes time, it may even be *impossible* to get rid of it by adding capacity. (If the queue growth during the time it takes to get more capacity in place is more than the increment of new capacity....)

Obviously this is a mess and says terrible things about ASCENT, the MFTS, and everyone involved...which is why, perhaps, putting the boot into Wigston about culture war issues might serve an unattributable briefer's interests...
steamchicken is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2022, 18:07
  #113 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,572
Received 412 Likes on 217 Posts
Originally Posted by charliegolf
Take em away for a newly invented 6 week assistant instructor course. Pass them all and put them to work.

CG
But they are flying an otherwise obsolete type of aircraft. Getting them up to speed to instruct on another type would take additional time and resources.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2022, 18:26
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 2,338
Received 60 Likes on 43 Posts
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
But they are flying an otherwise obsolete type of aircraft. Getting them up to speed to instruct on another type would take additional time and resources.
It was rather t-i-c from me.

But, are we saying ALL current Typhoon and F35 pilots were trained oh Hawk 2s?

CG
charliegolf is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2022, 18:28
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 2,364
Received 508 Likes on 143 Posts
CG

The first students were trained on T2 in 2012. So the answer to your question is no.

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2022, 19:38
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 2,338
Received 60 Likes on 43 Posts
Cheers Bob.
charliegolf is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2022, 21:13
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: east ESSEX
Posts: 4,647
Received 68 Likes on 43 Posts
BV,as it gets mentioned here about the `Hawk` engine problems,perhaps you could elaborate on what they are,and what is being done about it...?
sycamore is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2022, 01:53
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 2,364
Received 508 Likes on 143 Posts
Sycamore

I’m afraid that, due to commercial sensitivities, I am not at liberty to say anything on here. It’s also worth pointing out that my days as the resident Hawk hero are numbered. As of 20 Sep I’ll be a civilian and no longer flying Hawks. 3011 hours on type (T1/T2/115/165/166) is enough for anyone!

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2022, 21:55
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 503
Received 40 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by sycamore
BV,as it gets mentioned here about the `Hawk` engine problems,perhaps you could elaborate on what they are,and what is being done about it...?
It was in the first SkyNews video with the leaked info. If you look closely it states cracked LP modules in the Adour 951s - this has led to a reduced time between replacements:



Linky to video - look around 0:40 secs in
iRaven is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2022, 12:24
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,924
Received 139 Likes on 64 Posts
Originally Posted by Doctor Cruces
What is needed is to take it all back in house as it was in my day. What was a cynical political measure to be able to say "We've reduced the size of the military and saved x billions of pounds" always failed to mention that these military jobs were now outsourced at an extra cost of x billions of pounds. Stop messing about with what should be purely a military organisation and make it fit for purpose again.
But, as highlighted by many, the actual problem lies at the OCU stage, which IS all in house!
pr00ne is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.