IL-76 EFATO enroute Ukraine

[Pif Paf]

Originally Posted by uxb99

I take no joy from seeing people killed on either side. Have we really lost our humanity to a point we can't see past the propaganda? Having said that I will be happy when Russia is defeated.

Sailors also share a common bond in war regardless of the side they fight for. My dad was in the Navy during WW2. The common enemy was the sea.

The RN operates under the sea, above the sea or on the sea.
For those of us that operated from “pussers grey war canoes” the sea really becomes your enemy if you are IN the sea. Once in the water no matter who you are it’s survival time and you all work together!

The less aircraft the Russians have the better.

[NutLoose]

I’m sorry but who is more screwed up in their view of this, me or you Nil, Eichmann was a soldier, as a fellow soldier should one feel remorse at his death? no, don’t tar everyone with the same war brush, but slap it on thick for those none civilians feeding it.

The conscript on the front line is nothing without the professionals feeding, arming and supplying him.

[Nil_Drift]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

I’m sorry but who is more screwed up in their view of this, me or you Nil.

I am not justifying anything wicked that is being done, just mulling over the Forum's approach to this interesting subject.

For instance: a NATO ally crashes and burns. Immediate comments would be "I'll raise a glass" or "Blue skies" because an aviator has perished in his machine. In my view rightly so. What we don't know is that he may have been a racist, wife-beating paedophile when he wasn't flying.

Now a Russian IL-76 crashes and burns and the immediate response is cheers and a desire for it to happen again. What we don't know was whether these were 4 decent men, good husbands and fathers, apolitical in their views and probably were flying the IL-76 long before Putin came to power.

Therefore, my point is, should we allow an aviation tragedy to be coloured by the national flag that the aviators happened to operate under, and the politics of the national leader that they might despise, when we know absolutely nothing about the individuals involved except that they were fellow aviators?

[NutLoose]

I do understand where you are coming from, but they could just as easily have resigned from their contract, by not doing so they are agreeing with what is going on in Ukraine, so my sympathy ends there. You are by your actions compounding the issue.

If an aircrew in NATO was found to be standing by with the knowledge that raping and murder of women and children was going on and continued to support them, I would have the same feelings.
At some point you have to stand up for the rights of the many over the actions of the few.

[mopardave]

Originally Posted by Nil_Drift

Despite the regime or national air forces that aircrew fly for, it is always a tragedy when lives of fellow aviators are lost doing what many of us here have done safely for years.

In WWI, enemies would battle in the open skies and many stories are told of jammed guns or exhausted bullet supplies, aircraft tech snags or other issues, and the two aviators recognised that they both belonged to a niche cadre, though on opposite sides, saluted each other and let each one go their separate ways.

I was saddened to read comments of armchair pundits celebrating the loss of the IL-76 and at least 4 crew. The deceased had been trained to fly, would've worked hard to get to their respective professional positions, now their lives have been terminated when the aircraft got the better of them. I think only fellow fliers can understand something of the journey that ended in a Russian field.

Whether flying for a pariah state or friendly forces, we're all aircrew first ...

If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling mourning the loss of fellow aviators, knock yourself out......but I think you're being naive. They knew what they were signing up for and were doing their bit to further the twisted ambitions of a lunatic. My sympathies lie with the ordinary people of the Ukraine who have had their world torn apart and been brutalised beyond belief. Let's also consider that there is always the possibility that his ambitions may "expand" somewhat. I wonder what you'd think if your "brother" airmen were brought down whilst heading this way? So, I really don't care who they were or what their occupation was.........All's fair in love and war.......and they were engaged in war.........so, it's a solid tough sh#t from me old thing.

[Stagformation]

Sorry NIlDrift but ultimately your your point of view is immoral.

If I’ve been trained to kill or fly AT, is it ok now if I go and kill or fly AT in anyones army, for any purpose at all, and say I’m just doing my job?

Everyone who has a skill set, eg soldiers, sailors and aircmen, must decide if what they are doing serves the moral good and, if not, be prepared to walk away, resign or not join up. What makes a war just? Conquest (eg Russians in Ukraine in 2022), or liberation (Allies in Normandy in 1944)?

So should we support a crew serving in Putin’s unjust and immoral ‘special operation’? Of course not, not in any capacity!

[T28B]

Thread Locked. If you all want to continue with these rants, do not do it on the Military Aviation forum.
You know where Jet Blast is.