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-   -   IL-76 EFATO enroute Ukraine (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/647439-il-76-efato-enroute-ukraine.html)

Nil_Drift 24th Jun 2022 13:14

IL-76 EFATO enroute Ukraine
 
Despite the regime or national air forces that aircrew fly for, it is always a tragedy when lives of fellow aviators are lost doing what many of us here have done safely for years.

In WWI, enemies would battle in the open skies and many stories are told of jammed guns or exhausted bullet supplies, aircraft tech snags or other issues, and the two aviators recognised that they both belonged to a niche cadre, though on opposite sides, saluted each other and let each one go their separate ways.

I was saddened to read comments of armchair pundits celebrating the loss of the IL-76 and at least 4 crew. The deceased had been trained to fly, would've worked hard to get to their respective professional positions, now their lives have been terminated when the aircraft got the better of them. I think only fellow fliers can understand something of the journey that ended in a Russian field.

Whether flying for a pariah state or friendly forces, we're all aircrew first ...

dead_pan 24th Jun 2022 13:28

Yes I remember exactly these sentiments being expressed about aircrew who got their comeuppance in Syria immediately after barrel-bombing some civilians.

Suffice to say, I won't be mourning their loss.

Navaleye 24th Jun 2022 14:22

Serves them right for blowing up the Antonov 225

ORAC 24th Jun 2022 15:17

It would be a bit hypocritical to express sympathy when, if I had the means, Iíd be happy to have shot it down after take-off.

It was, after all, on a military resupply flight into Ukraine.

NutLoose 24th Jun 2022 15:34

At least they went out with a bang as opposed to sh*tting themselves while dying of cancer and old age.
It's not like they are delivering Christmas gifts to the children of Ukraine, more like death and destruction.
I had more sympathy for the three legged dog shown on one clip of the wreckage. With ORAC on this one.

charliegolf 24th Jun 2022 15:38


It's not like they are delivering Christmas gifts to the children of Ukraine
Christ Nutty, don't feed the Russkie propaganda machine!:ok:

CG

Beamr 24th Jun 2022 15:59

So, even the Russian AC are rather committing suicide than delivering supplies to the troops.

We will be seeing more of these.

1771 DELETE 24th Jun 2022 17:01

Maybe thats the difference between civilian and military aircrew, we knew the risks we were taking when signing on the bottom line. Thats not to say that i dont partially support the sentiment of the OP.

DaveReidUK 24th Jun 2022 17:42


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11251091)
It was, after all, on a military resupply flight into Ukraine.

Though it was flying away from Ukraine at the time, in fact not that far from Moscow.

Bit of a "gotcha" moment, as The Sun would put it ...

NutLoose 24th Jun 2022 17:58

Regardless of the direction, if one item delivered kills one person, one hopes they reap the same tenfold…... and some.

Melchett01 24th Jun 2022 18:00


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11251091)
It would be a bit hypocritical to express sympathy when, if I had the means, Iíd be happy to have shot it down after take-off.

It was, after all, on a military resupply flight into Ukraine.

Well quite. One less SAM used, one more left for a different Russian aircraft.

Maybe thatís harsh, but at my interview they did ask how I felt about killing for a living. And I donít have a huge amount of sympathy for the Russians.

uxb99 24th Jun 2022 18:19

I take no joy from seeing people killed on either side. Have we really lost our humanity to a point we can't see past the propaganda? Having said that I will be happy when Russia is defeated.

Sailors also share a common bond in war regardless of the side they fight for. My dad was in the Navy during WW2. The common enemy was the sea.

Tartiflette Fan 24th Jun 2022 18:30


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11251162)
I take no joy from seeing people killed on either side. Have we really lost our humanity to a point we can't see past the propaganda? Having said that I will be happy when Russia is defeated.

Sailors also share a common bond in war regardless of the side they fight for. My dad was in the Navy during WW2. The common enemy was the sea.

In your comment, you really do seem to want to include every possible combination. Sometimes an adult has to say : It's sad, but on balance I'm glad they died "

NutLoose 24th Jun 2022 18:33

No I haven’t lost my humanity, and yes it is always sad to see people die, BUT Ukraine did not invade anyone, Russia did, or should I say Putin did.

It is on the Russian peoples hands to end this and remove Putin and his cronies, either militarily or by a public ousting, and until that happens every single one of them, crew included are complicate in the murder of women and children and the massacres they are committing.
So no I am not sad, they had the choice to walk away, something the children and women of Bucha with their bodies raped and their hands tied behind their backs as they were executed did not.

They had a choice and they chose not to take it, one can only hope their final moments were in abject agony…. End of.


Melchett01 24th Jun 2022 18:35


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11251162)
I take no joy from seeing people killed on either side. Have we really lost our humanity to a point we can't see past the propaganda? Having said that I will be happy when Russia is defeated.

Sailors also share a common bond in war regardless of the side they fight for. My dad was in the Navy during WW2. The common enemy was the sea.

We are in the business of killing. Yes, it should be the absolute last resort, but we should be prepared to do it. And when our enemies do the job themselves for us, it makes our job that little bit easier.

Imagine if this thread was on PPRuNe-ski about a C-17 EFATO from BZN. Given all our efforts to support Ukraine I doubt they would be sympathetic.

NutLoose 24th Jun 2022 18:38

Yup, if you have a rabid dog, you do not pet it, you put it down.

uxb99 24th Jun 2022 18:47


Originally Posted by Melchett01 (Post 11251172)
We are in the business of killing. Yes, it should be the absolute last resort, but we should be prepared to do it. And when our enemies do the job themselves for us, it makes our job that little bit easier.

Imagine if this thread was on PPRuNe-ski about a C-17 EFATO from BZN. Given all our efforts to support Ukraine I doubt they would be sympathetic.

Yes I agree. But do we have to take such joy at the killing?

NutLoose 24th Jun 2022 19:09

I would not say it is joy, I see it more as a realistic point of view based on the the abhorrent reality that Is Ukraine.
How anyone can kill and rape women and children, destroy the infrastructure and expect people people to accept it
and not blame every man and his / her dog from the front line troops back to the support staff, be it pilots flying in re supplies and ammunition, to the guy cleaning the toilets in some camp in Outer Mongolia, they are all complicate in what is going on, and all are responsible.

One death, crew wise means many Ukrainians saved from shelling or shooting, and that is something to rejoice in.


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ramble on 24th Jun 2022 19:39

Every city I have been in in Ukraine has been attacked by missiles or artillery fired indiscriminately against military and civilians alike. When you see this killing and maiming of innocents and wanton destruction first hand, then 1 more russian military IL-76 down, no matter the way it happens, is just a bloody good start... you %#[email protected] appeasers!

My humanity is reserved for rescuing or giving first aid to someone that might have crashed in front of me no matter who they are - that’s something that I have to live with. Until the russian military pack up and go home then they deserve all that’s coming - let God sort them out.

Nil_Drift 24th Jun 2022 19:47


Originally Posted by Melchett01 (Post 11251172)
Imagine if this thread was on PPRuNe-ski about a C-17 EFATO from BZN.

It was such a thought that made me start the thread. The Americans used to say "A good Commie is a dead Commie" but, as we are an educated people, we know that we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

Not everyone in Germany in WWII was a Nazi; we know that not all Russians are in support of Putin's "Special Operation" and remember, for citizens in a totalitarian state to oppose the war, it takes far greater courage than we give credit for.

References to barrel bombs in Syria related to an IL-76 is like comparing a JDAM from a Typhoon in Iraq with an A400M out of BZN. The pilots of the heavy are not doing what the pilot of the FJ is doing so to tie them together on the basis that they are both in the military that happens to be led by a madman, thereby making them equally culpable, is extraordinary.

I abhor all that is being done to the Ukrainians; I wish western powers would say 'enough is enough' and ignore protocols and pacts and give Russia a good taste of its own medicine. But in all of this, let's not become part of the baying crowd and lose our own sense of humanity and respect for fellow aviators who may just have been resigned to doing another task that they didn't agree with.


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