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Red arrows confusing display team make up

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Red arrows confusing display team make up

Old 16th Aug 2022, 07:26
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Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
Teresa?
Camberwick ?
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 09:00
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Finningley Boy

“I’ve never come across anything like this before”

Er – it’s been a lot worse in the distant past.

In the late 60s a new leader was parachuted into the team without having flown with them before ‘down the back’, so to speak. During the season work-up he was so bad at leading that the rest of the formation broke away during a display practice and landed independently.

The team refused to fly with him again; a previous leader was brought in on the spot and led a successful season.

It happened again in the mid 70s, although it wasn’t quite so dramatic.

Unofficially, the Arrows (that’s what we used to call them - not the Reds), are the only RAF unit which can sack its own boss.
ExMM
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 09:09
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So, will the Senior Leadership Team replace Red 1 or the team Boss?
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 09:47
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ExMM that is most definitely not worse than what has been going on lately, and what the investigation is uncovering.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 11:51
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Originally Posted by campbeex View Post
Apart from the obvious, one of the disappointing aspects of this story is the lack of imagination put into nicknames in today's Royal Air Force (e.g. Damon "Damo" Green).
One of the newbies has a nickname that is not that politically correct. I doubt he will use it and I certainly will not be offering to disclose it here.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 13:53
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Originally Posted by Diff Tail Shim View Post
One of the newbies has a nickname that is not that politically correct. I doubt he will use it and I certainly will not be offering to disclose it here.
and this you’ve posted because?
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 14:30
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Originally Posted by alfred_the_great View Post
and this you’ve posted because?
Because non political nicknames still exist?
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 14:46
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One of the best nicknames (call signs?) I seen recently was the one used by F35 test pilot Steve Long …..




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Old 16th Aug 2022, 14:52
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OMS, we had quite a few on Harrier including LOG (Schlong) and SAK. A good chuckle could be had when BAD, BAK, DIC, & HED were programmed on the same 4 ship...
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 15:15
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Cool

Originally Posted by Stitchbitch View Post
OMS, we had quite a few on Harrier including LOG (Schlong) and SAK. A good chuckle could be had when BAD, BAK, DIC, & HED were programmed on the same 4 ship...
SB

DiC and HeD seem very appropriate for Harrier mates. (IMHO of course)

😉
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:02
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy View Post
I think the RAF hierarchy would have been better to be honest and get this one out of the way, rather than allowing it to drag on. It's a repeat of what was happening about 10 years ago isn't it?
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:13
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Daily Telegraph this afternoon predicts the future of the Arrows. A phot taken at Balckpool pleasure beach recently
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 17:48
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Bring back the Yellowjacks; or even the Black Arrows.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 17:55
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Firebirds for me!
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 18:21
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LotofTime

Reference historical Red Arrows problems:

‘ExMM that is most definitely not worse than what has been going on lately, and what the investigation is uncovering.’ My italics

I have no idea of the full ins and outs of what has just happened to the team. as I take all media reports about aviation with a large pinch of salt.

However, If you had some experience of formation display aerobatics I’m sure you would agree that the prospect of the entire team being flown into the ground by an incompetent leader would certainly grab your attention.
ExMM
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 20:37
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Always admired the Arrows over many years. Unfortunately after reading press accounts of this apparent debacle I sadly have to say that should the Government decide we can no longer afford them then I would be saddened but not devastated. To not be able to perform a 9 ship team is totally disappointing and an embarrassment for both the RAF &UK. The resources required have, in recent years, been repaid in global pride and esteem whilst inspiring potential recruits (albeit not it seems of the required ethnic quota). In the current economic crisis there are probably many who feel the money could be spent in more needy areas. Can anyone put forward the argument they deserve to continue to exist or could we have 2 more Wedgetails instead? Personally would like both!!

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Old 16th Aug 2022, 20:44
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy View Post
Not meaning to be nosey but I wonder what the Toxic culture is that's referred to? Just can't imagine this in the days of the Great Red Arrows leaders of the past, Lee Jones, Ray Hannah AFC*, Ian Dick, Brian Hoskins etc.

FB
This one is a stinker. I was told about it a few months ago by a former colleague with links back to the Hawk. Thought it was all gossip or rumour and likely overblown. However, the press reports, as they are, are accurate. But they are a fraction of what’s been going on. If it comes out in full it will be a massive problem given Wigston’s report.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 20:58
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Originally Posted by brianj View Post
Always admired the Arrows over many years. Unfortunately after reading press accounts of this apparent debacle I sadly have to say that should the Government decide we can no longer afford them then I would be saddened but not devastated. To not be able to perform a 9 ship team is totally disappointing and an embarrassment for both the RAF &UK. The resources required have, in recent years, been repaid in global pride and esteem whilst inspiring potential recruits (albeit not it seems of the required ethnic quota). In the current economic crisis there are probably many who feel the money could be spent in more needy areas. Can anyone put forward the argument they deserve to continue to exist or could we have 2 more Wedgetails instead? Personally would like both!!
Yes - the FCDO, DIT and Treasury would be rather upset at the massively reduced trade, goodwill and diplomatic leverage UK plc would lose out on if we got rid of them. Doesn’t mean there aren’t issues to be resolved though.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 21:09
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Originally Posted by exMudmover View Post
Finningley Boy

“I’ve never come across anything like this before”

Er – it’s been a lot worse in the distant past.

In the late 60s a new leader was parachuted into the team without having flown with them before ‘down the back’, so to speak. During the season work-up he was so bad at leading that the rest of the formation broke away during a display practice and landed independently.

The team refused to fly with him again; a previous leader was brought in on the spot and led a successful season.

It happened again in the mid 70s, although it wasn’t quite so dramatic.

Unofficially, the Arrows (that’s what we used to call them - not the Reds), are the only RAF unit which can sack its own boss.
ExMM
If my memory serves me correctly, Ray Hannah led the team from '66 to '69 then Den Hazell took over for 1970. Former team member, Bill Loverseed took over following the loss of more than one pilot during a serious incident during a training flight in 1971. I imagine the individual you refer to here remains unnamed.

FB
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 22:46
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Originally Posted by brianj View Post
Always admired the Arrows over many years. Unfortunately after reading press accounts of this apparent debacle I sadly have to say that should the Government decide we can no longer afford them then I would be saddened but not devastated. To not be able to perform a 9 ship team is totally disappointing and an embarrassment for both the RAF &UK. The resources required have, in recent years, been repaid in global pride and esteem whilst inspiring potential recruits (albeit not it seems of the required ethnic quota). In the current economic crisis there are probably many who feel the money could be spent in more needy areas. Can anyone put forward the argument they deserve to continue to exist or could we have 2 more Wedgetails instead? Personally would like both!!
Get pilots to that are there for the achievement, not the ego. They are the best ambassadors for the UK. Crossed paths with the good, the bad and ugly that flew a tour with RAFAT.
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