Red arrows confusing display team make up
Above average pilots do have an ego. They must have that to do what they do. But they can have an ego and not be a Richard Cranium. The Daily Mail love one Red for reasons we all know. I met him in a mess one day and he was in bully mode. Why was I there? Invited guest (and I was civilian in rank was my answer). Mentioned the incident to another officer whom was there at the time a few years later and his reply was "He could be like that! Countdown.
I think many of the RAF's best fast jet pilots avoid the Reds.
The role requires parading in the public eye, which doesn't sit well with many warfighters and can, in extreme cases, attract the wrong type of individual.
I do hope the RAF get this sorted. It could be seen as a good thing that the dirty laundry is being aired in public and I hope that the problem is dealt with head on, with no half-measures. Whether it's an individual, or a recruitment process - things clearly need to change, for the long-term success of the team, and before the accidents start to happen again.
The role requires parading in the public eye, which doesn't sit well with many warfighters and can, in extreme cases, attract the wrong type of individual.
I do hope the RAF get this sorted. It could be seen as a good thing that the dirty laundry is being aired in public and I hope that the problem is dealt with head on, with no half-measures. Whether it's an individual, or a recruitment process - things clearly need to change, for the long-term success of the team, and before the accidents start to happen again.
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The accidents". one way or another, have not stopped, unless one has short memory.
The very existence of the Reds depends on an unquantifiable belief that they are good for recruiting, image, trade, prestige, ceremonial and the like.
On the cost side they gobble up funds, maintain obsolete aircraft, keep about a dozen trained fast-jet pilots from useful roles, and consume vast amounts of red paint, dye, fuel and vino.
Time was, but this is 2022. Perhaps we should try to do without, as we are practising with fewer and fewer.
The very existence of the Reds depends on an unquantifiable belief that they are good for recruiting, image, trade, prestige, ceremonial and the like.
On the cost side they gobble up funds, maintain obsolete aircraft, keep about a dozen trained fast-jet pilots from useful roles, and consume vast amounts of red paint, dye, fuel and vino.
Time was, but this is 2022. Perhaps we should try to do without, as we are practising with fewer and fewer.
They do like they still do in any military organisation. I don't mention it as the guy has not been officially announced as selected yet, even though others screwed up big time on keeping a secret. I was talking to him on Saturday and congratulating him on his selection. Lots of people know the bloke due to his wide range of aeronautical hobbies outside of the RAF sphere and he is respected in the RAF as being a bloody good egg.
I do hope the RAF get this sorted. It could be seen as a good thing that the dirty laundry is being aired in public and I hope that the problem is dealt with head on, with no half-measures. Whether it's an individual, or a recruitment process - things clearly need to change, for the long-term success of the team, and before the accidents start to happen again.
I agree with LB, I served as groundcrew on 92 (Biue Diamonds) and we still had an AD role in Fighter Command. In these difficult times , good as they are they are a luxury we can ill afford.
Join Date: May 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I struggle to see how, if pilots leave as planned at the end of the year, RAFAT will rebuild as a nine ship and bring the rear section back to the show. Reds 4 and 6 have done 5 and 4 years respectively, with Red 5 also coming towards the end of his expected time on the team. That leaves Red 7 to move up to synchro lead with 3 pilots required to move to the back of the team and somehow recreated the Gypo break etc. Public maths, if people leave as planned, there would only be 2 pilots available to move back to the roles of Red 7,8 and 9. It is not a safe course of action unless people stay on for another year and help rebuild the team.
Assuming that things are as bad as they seem at Scampton, why would anybody wish to remain beyond their expected tour? This might be a natural time for the RAF to consign RAFAT to the history books. Their display this year is, at best, lame and I fear that too much damage has been done.
Assuming that things are as bad as they seem at Scampton, why would anybody wish to remain beyond their expected tour? This might be a natural time for the RAF to consign RAFAT to the history books. Their display this year is, at best, lame and I fear that too much damage has been done.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,844 Likes
on
1,215 Posts
Well, this will be interesting...
Red Arrows to undertake five-week Middle East tour in late 2022 - This is Flight
The RAF Red Arrows will return to the Middle East this year as part of a five week tour, making their debut at the Bahrain International Airshow and visiting the nations of Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
The Royal Air Force announced on Monday that the team will be participating at the Bahrain International Airshow on the 9th-11th November 2022 – one of the region’s most important aviation trade shows, held biannually since 2010. While in the region, the team will tour several other nations, including Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, supporting the UK’s business and defence initiatives. The RAF said they also hoped the tour would include the team’s first visit to Egypt in almost 20 years.
Totalling five weeks, the tour will begin after their European display season ends, likely commencing in early October and finishing in mid-November. Their European season began in France on the 28th May, with their final appearance currently scheduled for the Great North Run on Saturday 11th September.
The Middle East is the Red Arrows’ most recent destination outside Europe, with the team having visited in 2014, 2016 and 2017. In 2019, they instead toured North America, but returned to the Middle East for a short mini-tour in 2021 in support of the UK’s participation in the delayed Expo 2020 event in Dubai.
This will be the Red Arrows’ first visit to the region as a seven-ship team; the squadron is performing with just seven jets this year, rather than the usual nine, after the unexpected departure of two pilots during pre-season training.
The Royal Air Force announced on Monday that the team will be participating at the Bahrain International Airshow on the 9th-11th November 2022 – one of the region’s most important aviation trade shows, held biannually since 2010. While in the region, the team will tour several other nations, including Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, supporting the UK’s business and defence initiatives. The RAF said they also hoped the tour would include the team’s first visit to Egypt in almost 20 years.
Totalling five weeks, the tour will begin after their European display season ends, likely commencing in early October and finishing in mid-November. Their European season began in France on the 28th May, with their final appearance currently scheduled for the Great North Run on Saturday 11th September.
The Middle East is the Red Arrows’ most recent destination outside Europe, with the team having visited in 2014, 2016 and 2017. In 2019, they instead toured North America, but returned to the Middle East for a short mini-tour in 2021 in support of the UK’s participation in the delayed Expo 2020 event in Dubai.
This will be the Red Arrows’ first visit to the region as a seven-ship team; the squadron is performing with just seven jets this year, rather than the usual nine, after the unexpected departure of two pilots during pre-season training.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,844 Likes
on
1,215 Posts
I see MT has improved, or is it cutbacks and they haven't been able to replace them yet?
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Down West
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid the Reds are ready to be consigned to history just like the field gun and mast manning. Nice while it lasted but definitely not the best anymore and hardly relevant as a showcase of British industry. Years ago people on here were claiming that "It only cost 10 million a year" (yeh right) and was "value for money". When a twin rotor Wokka can wow the crowds without all the drama about who's made who cry behind the scenes, that's value for money; especially when the aircraft actually has a day job! Cheers now
I'm afraid the Reds are ready to be consigned to history just like the field gun and mast manning. Nice while it lasted but definitely not the best anymore and hardly relevant as a showcase of British industry. Years ago people on here were claiming that "It only cost 10 million a year" (yeh right) and was "value for money". When a twin rotor Wokka can wow the crowds without all the drama about who's made who cry behind the scenes, that's value for money; especially when the aircraft actually has a day job! Cheers now
Watching the Reds at big seaside shows - with the real British public - the massive applause, oohs and ahhs makes me proud to have once served and the crowd's reaction sends a tingle down the spine. But I appreciate for some - a chip on the shoulder or jealously - may not appreciate the excellence on display.
KK,
I have neither a chip on my shoulder nor jealousy towards the 'Arrows' I have been there as I stated (as an Air Radar fitter I was on the 'Derv' team !) BUT we also ,as I said we played our part in AD exercises and the like. As we appear to be lacking in FJ pilots and groundcrew my take is that these members of the 'Arrows' could be more usefully employed elsewhere in the RAF.
Given the 'diversity' pause in RAF recruiting I do wonder who would attempt join the RAF just because of one of their displays .
I have neither a chip on my shoulder nor jealousy towards the 'Arrows' I have been there as I stated (as an Air Radar fitter I was on the 'Derv' team !) BUT we also ,as I said we played our part in AD exercises and the like. As we appear to be lacking in FJ pilots and groundcrew my take is that these members of the 'Arrows' could be more usefully employed elsewhere in the RAF.
Given the 'diversity' pause in RAF recruiting I do wonder who would attempt join the RAF just because of one of their displays .