No more ACs, LACs, and SACs....
Drifting but I am confused about what has happened to NCO ranks over the past years.
I should say that I in no way want to denigrate those currently serving or the ranks they hold but I would appreciate an explanation from someone still serving.
I left having completed 22 in 1986. In the aircraft trades it was the norm for someone, providing he had the right numbers and had passed the promotion exams, to reach Chf/Tech at around about 30 - 32 years old. This was based on time promotion which stopped about 2 years before I was due my Chief. As a result I was 2 years late in getting promoted, 34. The idea of a Tech.Cpl in his early to mid 30s. was practically unheard of. He would probably have gone at the 12 year point with no opportunity to sign on beyond that. What has changed?
I should say that I in no way want to denigrate those currently serving or the ranks they hold but I would appreciate an explanation from someone still serving.
I left having completed 22 in 1986. In the aircraft trades it was the norm for someone, providing he had the right numbers and had passed the promotion exams, to reach Chf/Tech at around about 30 - 32 years old. This was based on time promotion which stopped about 2 years before I was due my Chief. As a result I was 2 years late in getting promoted, 34. The idea of a Tech.Cpl in his early to mid 30s. was practically unheard of. He would probably have gone at the 12 year point with no opportunity to sign on beyond that. What has changed?
There are no promotion exams, just courses to be taken once you’ve come off the board which sits every year. You are pre-boarded into A B and C grades, and then the board themselves look at all the A grades and a percentage of the B’s. They look at your last 3 annual assessments and order everyone depending on what they’re looking for, and then the number that are required are offered promotion. If you’re number 71 and they only need 70, then you’re out of luck unless someone turns it down.
I joined in 2000, and was just outside of the board after 8 years or so for promotion to Cpl. This is the average sort of time you’d expect, so people get it sooner if they do all the outside work, secondary duties, charities etc, and some take longer. I was posted the next year, my assessment went down as I was on a new aircraft and didn’t have the confidence to act like an NCO, so that reset me to needing another 3 good assessments. The RAF signed me on to 15 years due to needing manpower (JT’s were singed on to 22 at one point) and eventually after 14 years I came off the board again. This allowed me to sign on to 22 years (AFPS75 pensionable point) and gave me 7 years or so to make Sgt. This would be needed to sign on to 30 years if I wanted it.
5 years later and I took a place doing my civilian licenses which would send me out to industry for 2 years, and also end any chances of promotion for at least another 3 years after that but I’d get a qualification which would easily earn way more money than the RAF could ever pay me, but came with a 3 year return of service.
The point of all that was to say that when I leave the RAF after 25 years service, I’ll still be a Cpl because the promotion system requires a lot of game playing and box ticking, and there isn’t an option similar to PA Spine/Specialist Aircrew for us. My board just sat as it happens, and a total of 50 people were promoted I think, from a pool of about 700.
In the 60s time promotion worked, and you could be a 25 year old Sergeant (I was) if your annual assessments didn't delay promotion, and you actually read the bits of paper needed to pass the promotion papers. Those around and under me were mostly motivated and competent. There were exceptions 
Times have changed massively. The Air Force no longer has time promotion above Flt Lt and SAC, and it’s all done on merit (medical and dental branches might be a bit different)
There are no promotion exams, just courses to be taken once you’ve come off the board which sits every year. You are pre-boarded into A B and C grades, and then the board themselves look at all the A grades and a percentage of the B’s. They look at your last 3 annual assessments and order everyone depending on what they’re looking for, and then the number that are required are offered promotion. If you’re number 71 and they only need 70, then you’re out of luck unless someone turns it down.
I joined in 2000, and was just outside of the board after 8 years or so for promotion to Cpl. This is the average sort of time you’d expect, so people get it sooner if they do all the outside work, secondary duties, charities etc, and some take longer. I was posted the next year, my assessment went down as I was on a new aircraft and didn’t have the confidence to act like an NCO, so that reset me to needing another 3 good assessments. The RAF signed me on to 15 years due to needing manpower (JT’s were singed on to 22 at one point) and eventually after 14 years I came off the board again. This allowed me to sign on to 22 years (AFPS75 pensionable point) and gave me 7 years or so to make Sgt. This would be needed to sign on to 30 years if I wanted it.
5 years later and I took a place doing my civilian licenses which would send me out to industry for 2 years, and also end any chances of promotion for at least another 3 years after that but I’d get a qualification which would easily earn way more money than the RAF could ever pay me, but came with a 3 year return of service.
The point of all that was to say that when I leave the RAF after 25 years service, I’ll still be a Cpl because the promotion system requires a lot of game playing and box ticking, and there isn’t an option similar to PA Spine/Specialist Aircrew for us. My board just sat as it happens, and a total of 50 people were promoted I think, from a pool of about 700.
There are no promotion exams, just courses to be taken once you’ve come off the board which sits every year. You are pre-boarded into A B and C grades, and then the board themselves look at all the A grades and a percentage of the B’s. They look at your last 3 annual assessments and order everyone depending on what they’re looking for, and then the number that are required are offered promotion. If you’re number 71 and they only need 70, then you’re out of luck unless someone turns it down.
I joined in 2000, and was just outside of the board after 8 years or so for promotion to Cpl. This is the average sort of time you’d expect, so people get it sooner if they do all the outside work, secondary duties, charities etc, and some take longer. I was posted the next year, my assessment went down as I was on a new aircraft and didn’t have the confidence to act like an NCO, so that reset me to needing another 3 good assessments. The RAF signed me on to 15 years due to needing manpower (JT’s were singed on to 22 at one point) and eventually after 14 years I came off the board again. This allowed me to sign on to 22 years (AFPS75 pensionable point) and gave me 7 years or so to make Sgt. This would be needed to sign on to 30 years if I wanted it.
5 years later and I took a place doing my civilian licenses which would send me out to industry for 2 years, and also end any chances of promotion for at least another 3 years after that but I’d get a qualification which would easily earn way more money than the RAF could ever pay me, but came with a 3 year return of service.
The point of all that was to say that when I leave the RAF after 25 years service, I’ll still be a Cpl because the promotion system requires a lot of game playing and box ticking, and there isn’t an option similar to PA Spine/Specialist Aircrew for us. My board just sat as it happens, and a total of 50 people were promoted I think, from a pool of about 700.
Well all I can say is that I am glad I went when I did. I was a SGT. at 25 and a Chief at 34 and I had been allowed to sign on for a further 7 years beyond my 22 which, in those days, meant that I was in line " for me crown". I had also been asked if I would like to consider a Branch Commission. I decided I'd had enough and PVRd at my 22 point. Within 12 months my salary had doubled, I had complete autonomy and I didn't have to look after and guide SAC Bloggs who had overspent on his credit card for the third time.
Well all I can say is that I am glad I went when I did. I was a SGT. at 25 and a Chief at 34 and I had been allowed to sign on for a further 7 years beyond my 22 which, in those days, meant that I was in line " for me crown". I had also been asked if I would like to consider a Branch Commission. I decided I'd had enough and PVRd at my 22 point. Within 12 months my salary had doubled, I had complete autonomy and I didn't have to look after and guide SAC Bloggs who had overspent on his credit card for the third time.
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BTW, she was surprisingly popular with the majority!
Last edited by MPN11; 13th Jun 2022 at 18:20.
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Didn’t Spec Aircrew have that at one stage?
....much!
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Tne OH was a flt cdr at The Towers in the early 80s. She found it blisteringly difficult to bin seriously unsuitable Officer Cadets… the ‘System’ preferred re-C oursing. However, she justified her nickname of “Snakebite” … swift and deadly. 😎
BTW, she was surprisingly popular with the majority!
BTW, she was surprisingly popular with the majority!
LAC and SAC renamed
It passed me by, but I see that, back in July, the RAF renamed LAC and SAC as Air Specialist Class 2 or 1 respectively. What utter nonsense, and presumably done to rid the world of those horrible terms ‘aircraftman’ and ‘aircraftwoman’ that so offended no one, ever. More Wigston wokery…
None of the ex SACs on my Sqn give a monkey's about it, nothing has changed for the worse. I actually think 'Air Specialist' better describes the function of someone who supports the delivery of Air Power, in all its forms, than 'Aircraftsman'.
It passed me by, but I see that, back in July, the RAF renamed LAC and SAC as Air Specialist Class 2 or 1 respectively. What utter nonsense, and presumably done to rid the world of those horrible terms ‘aircraftman’ and ‘aircraftwoman’ that so offended no one, ever. More Wigston wokery…
It passed me by, but I see that, back in July, the RAF renamed LAC and SAC as Air Specialist Class 2 or 1 respectively. What utter nonsense, and presumably done to rid the world of those horrible terms ‘aircraftman’ and ‘aircraftwoman’ that so offended no one, ever. More Wigston wokery…
I'm guessing you're 'ex' so honestly, what is it to you? Let go FFS.
I'll bite. Aviator is for everyone in the RAF, Gunner is still just for the RAF Regiment. Just as before, you would speak of RAF Regiment Gunners not RAF Regiment Airmen, it's still RAF Regiment Gunners not RAF Regiment Aviators. Even though we're all Aviators in the RAF :-)