Jets in low flying shock horror!
LFA14(t) was a great place to grow up & there was always a surprisingly wide variety of aircraft from numerous countries to see. If it wasn't for the occasional duo or trio of F-15E's these days, there would be less than nothing now.
Living in suburban Sydney, we were treated on a couple of consecutive Saturday afternoons to a Pitts Special & a Cessna playing Snoopy & the Red Baron. Almostallthe comments on the local FB page were +ve except for a couple of people who didn't think it was a good place to do aerobatics. (They weren't, just some tight turns.) Turns out, they had all the appropriate clearances and were over the home of one of the pilots.
Then again, if the rescue or police helicopter is around for any length of time, (common here, as there are often lost or injured hikers), we have complaints.
Then again, if the rescue or police helicopter is around for any length of time, (common here, as there are often lost or injured hikers), we have complaints.
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BV, is the old rule-of-thumb no longer valid, of everyone except OCA/DCA going LL if there is a REDAIR threat? Especially, if sausage side with SA-20 etc around? ... and you are a Herc ... or non-Stealth aeroplane?
Gooey
The old idea of having pure strikers is what has changed. Every fighter nowadays carries Fox3s so they do not want to be hanging around at LL. They will be part of the OCA, then swing to drop their bombs and go back to being OCA again.
There is still a requirement to have the pure flying skill to operate safely in a LL environment (just ask the RCAF what happens when you pretend you are competent at LL flying) but the idea of pure low level fighter strike missions is now a thing of the past. Remember as well with modern SAMs the idea of getting in under the radar is just not feasible any more. Yes I know we should never say never but when you can’t do everything you prioritise the things that you are most likely to do.
As for Hercs etc at low level, you’re going to have to think very carefully before you put them into a contested environment especially when there are modern SAMs about.
BV
There is still a requirement to have the pure flying skill to operate safely in a LL environment (just ask the RCAF what happens when you pretend you are competent at LL flying) but the idea of pure low level fighter strike missions is now a thing of the past. Remember as well with modern SAMs the idea of getting in under the radar is just not feasible any more. Yes I know we should never say never but when you can’t do everything you prioritise the things that you are most likely to do.
As for Hercs etc at low level, you’re going to have to think very carefully before you put them into a contested environment especially when there are modern SAMs about.
BV
Utter Tosh - they were nearer 250', or atleast they were earlier in the day ;-) The beauty of living on the NE corner of the LBA zone enroute to The Lakes from Suffolk :-)
Happy Days
Happy Days
There is the "remains" of an LFA over the back of my place and a real assortment of aircraft used to use it. An example was every Monday morning a pair of A10's doing lazy 8's over the village school, nobody minded. There also used to be a large chimney where all the aircraft running along the LFA would make a sharp turn over it and head north.
it's gone now replaced by some very expensive houses and the odd Apache ( or two ) heading west, so sad
it's gone now replaced by some very expensive houses and the odd Apache ( or two ) heading west, so sad
Grew up with the parents owning a summer house in what must of been a Swedish LFA, from memory there even was an off the grid airbase not far from there, and not once did I feel like I was about to get bombed when getting surprised by some Viggen's, SK60's or the odd Draken roared by at "I can count rivets" heights!
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Have to agree with the complaint, used to live and work near Soesterberg, and it was every so now and then those snotty nosed jet teens having a jolly ride opening up that afterburner, or some high placed whatevere necessitated a small 'flight show' again with afterburners and all. do it above the north sea, away from public places. Sick of everything trembling including windows etc, just to have a second, and wowy dowy, sometimes even jee a third teenager in tail playing catch up. I'm an aviation fan and like watching them, but not where I live with animals. Not needed, save for a QRT...
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Thanks Bob. Appreciate your insight here.
Noting how small RAF force is now, I had wondered about the multi-role concept. I had mistakenly assumed the AAM on attackers were more for self defence.It does surprise me still: I understood that IAF are approaching LL from west Lebanon IOT avoid radar & C2/SAM & reduce reaction time from the target areas; also, that the mighty Typhoon has enough power and fuel to do OCA/DCA, launch a couple of Storm Shadows, and re-role back.
Agree entirely about slow movers. As for Hercs & SH etc at LL, it always is a careful balance b/w planning risk and mission. That's why you train at LL, good intelligence, blah blah. To support the customers.
Noting how small RAF force is now, I had wondered about the multi-role concept. I had mistakenly assumed the AAM on attackers were more for self defence.It does surprise me still: I understood that IAF are approaching LL from west Lebanon IOT avoid radar & C2/SAM & reduce reaction time from the target areas; also, that the mighty Typhoon has enough power and fuel to do OCA/DCA, launch a couple of Storm Shadows, and re-role back.
Agree entirely about slow movers. As for Hercs & SH etc at LL, it always is a careful balance b/w planning risk and mission. That's why you train at LL, good intelligence, blah blah. To support the customers.
Would current flyers care to comment on whether Met. has kept pace with operational demand and changing needs? Especially low level?
As an ex-professional I have a nasty feeling that, whereas the RAF were THE customers on whom we focussed, to good or bad effect, the Met. Office now sees the military need as a bit of a side-show. I hope not.
"the older I get the better I used to be" applies of course.
As an ex-professional I have a nasty feeling that, whereas the RAF were THE customers on whom we focussed, to good or bad effect, the Met. Office now sees the military need as a bit of a side-show. I hope not.
"the older I get the better I used to be" applies of course.
Would current flyers care to comment on whether Met. has kept pace with operational demand and changing needs? Especially low level?
As an ex-professional I have a nasty feeling that, whereas the RAF were THE customers on whom we focussed, to good or bad effect, the Met. Office now sees the military need as a bit of a side-show. I hope not.
"the older I get the better I used to be" applies of course.
As an ex-professional I have a nasty feeling that, whereas the RAF were THE customers on whom we focussed, to good or bad effect, the Met. Office now sees the military need as a bit of a side-show. I hope not.
"the older I get the better I used to be" applies of course.
'twas ever thus!
I can cap that.
Met Office JHQ RAFG's first attempt at using magnetic smarties RED AMB YLO GRN WHT BLU on a map of NW Europe failed to note that the back-plate for the large wall map was non-ferrous. Just before my time there.
The C Met O [whose invention it was] was apparently displeased. The staff delighted.
It took a junior assistant to diagnose the problem, it was said.
Thereafter the board worked well, although labour intensive, bridging the gap to the computer age.
Met Office JHQ RAFG's first attempt at using magnetic smarties RED AMB YLO GRN WHT BLU on a map of NW Europe failed to note that the back-plate for the large wall map was non-ferrous. Just before my time there.
The C Met O [whose invention it was] was apparently displeased. The staff delighted.
It took a junior assistant to diagnose the problem, it was said.
Thereafter the board worked well, although labour intensive, bridging the gap to the computer age.
YLO 2 was never an official construct except within the customers. We never called it, and never forecast it.
BLK was added by ATC as an option but, again, we never used it.
BLK was added by ATC as an option but, again, we never used it.
Last edited by langleybaston; 26th Jan 2022 at 18:13. Reason: addendum
Avoid imitations
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At Gutersloh in winter we could have yellow colour states lasting for weeks. We used to launch and “grobble” our way around when it went up from colour state red (no flying).
One snowy day, during a colour state red, we heard on the squadron that a certain Puma (U.K. based but not the usual squadron) on a mission had just called up for a refuel but it had been denied landing request due to the airfield weather state. The crew insisted that they urgently needed to come in for fuel but were then informed that the station commander had been consulted and had personally denied them landing permission at his airfield. A short time later a Puma appeared out of the snow and landed on the sports field just across the public road, outside the main gate. The crew marched across to the guard room and requested the use of a telephone for a call to U.K. A very short time later the Station Commander received a mainly one way telephone call from a certain office back in Blighty, after which a bowser was sent across the road in very short order and the Puma soon continued on its merry way.
Stumblefingers might be able to confirm or correct my recollection.
One snowy day, during a colour state red, we heard on the squadron that a certain Puma (U.K. based but not the usual squadron) on a mission had just called up for a refuel but it had been denied landing request due to the airfield weather state. The crew insisted that they urgently needed to come in for fuel but were then informed that the station commander had been consulted and had personally denied them landing permission at his airfield. A short time later a Puma appeared out of the snow and landed on the sports field just across the public road, outside the main gate. The crew marched across to the guard room and requested the use of a telephone for a call to U.K. A very short time later the Station Commander received a mainly one way telephone call from a certain office back in Blighty, after which a bowser was sent across the road in very short order and the Puma soon continued on its merry way.
Stumblefingers might be able to confirm or correct my recollection.
Thread drift continues....... ( But it is jetblast )
YLO 2. Had a place in life...
Not so good for a white instrument rating
Not so good for a weather diversion ( 1 GRN or 2 YLO 1)
Not so good for a run in and break
Good indicator of forthcoming beer, as in divs dropped to YLO 2.
.
You shouldn't have mentioned black.. maybe better memories than mine could confirm
BLK 1. Crash cat 0
BLK 2 ice and snow
BLk 3. Crosswinds
BLK 4. Unpublished shut for party, siesta etc
Ok, I made the last one up
Oh dear, not jetblast.... Time for medication
YLO 2. Had a place in life...
Not so good for a white instrument rating
Not so good for a weather diversion ( 1 GRN or 2 YLO 1)
Not so good for a run in and break
Good indicator of forthcoming beer, as in divs dropped to YLO 2.
.
You shouldn't have mentioned black.. maybe better memories than mine could confirm
BLK 1. Crash cat 0
BLK 2 ice and snow
BLk 3. Crosswinds
BLK 4. Unpublished shut for party, siesta etc
Ok, I made the last one up
Oh dear, not jetblast.... Time for medication