What is going on at the top??
It's actually a good thing that there is more than one type of footwear on issue. The realisation that different manufacturers cater to different types of feet/environments giving people the choice to wear what is comfortable and appropriate. There are currently three colours of flying boot available on issue/in service AFAIK (black/brown/tan?) so realistically even the colour doesn't matter, but maybe a tan pair of desert flying boots aren't appropriate given the UK temperate climate at this time of year.
Perhaps we could give them a badge or something to denote their trade as real aviators? Didn't they try that with RPAS operators too but they felt excluded because it was a different colour thread or something?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 60
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Donkey's.
This simply reminds me of the fable of The Old Man and The Donkey; so busy trying to please everyone that you end up pleasing nobody at all.
Last edited by TLDNMCL; 29th Nov 2021 at 22:09.
Personally I don't see why they couldn't have reversed the early-2000s abolition of the ACW/LACW/SACW ranks (which was considered an 'empowering' move at the time, but by the standards of today looks like it 'erased' women - there's a lesson there about the perils of trying to keep up with social scientific trends), allow individuals the freedom to switch between the gendered ranks as often as they like, and replace the catch-all term 'airmen' with 'airmen and airwomen'. As a bonus, the act of saying 'soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen' implicitly advertises the RAF's openness to both sexes. Yes, this wouldn't address non-binary or asexual people, but trying to please everyone - especially those of an activist mindset - is a very difficult thing to do.
Don't really know why people are getting so heated about this. Myself as a serving pilot in the military know I fly planes. Our new 'aviators' who support the mission know they don't fly planes. Someone who's in the flying branch must have a fair few insecurities if they're worried that those in ground roles have been given a title that may somehow make others think they get airborne as part of their job. As a qualified serving pilot you should have nothing to prove to anyone. Which does make me wonder who the majority of people commenting on this thread are.
Don't really know why people are getting so heated about this. Myself as a serving pilot in the military know I fly planes. Our new 'aviators' who support the mission know they don't fly planes. Someone who's in the flying branch must have a fair few insecurities if they're worried that those in ground roles have been given a title that may somehow make others think they get airborne as part of their job. As a qualified serving pilot you should have nothing to prove to anyone. Which does make me wonder who the majority of people commenting on this thread are.
Did you see all the excitement on social media over the fake notice that came out about "aircrew" eagles going on SAC/Cpl rank tabs too? Lots of frothing at mouths.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northumberland
Age: 65
Posts: 746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LS8C1
All valid points but it is not about what you think, or any serving/Ex member of the RAF.
It is about the global perception of the RAF as an effective fighting force and a credible deterrent. All of that is suffering badly because of this pointless PC crap.
It is about the global perception of the RAF as an effective fighting force and a credible deterrent. All of that is suffering badly because of this pointless PC crap.
Citation needed.
"back in the day", Airmen made sense. Society has changed - 1 in 5 of the RAF is not male, so airmen seems inaccurate and innapropriate.
As usual the "of course there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" brigade are out in force getting worked up about a change that makes no impact or difference to their lives, but may make a meaningful difference to those who are serving now.
To those who say "but standards and in my day" - firstly, the operative phrase is 'your day' - that was then, this is now. Thank you for your service, but let those who are serving now express a view on what they want - your views are an irrelevance. Secondly, the RAF is always changing and has done since it was formed. The RAF you served in was so different to the one you joined, the one you learned about as a kid, and the one you left as to be a never permanent organisation - don't assume that because things were done a certain way once, that this continues to make sense.
Finally, you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have - you may want to get all angry and hit the keyboard moaning about snowflakes and diversity and how it was better when you were in - but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now. I personally think they deserve more respect than being insulted by yesterdays men who are unhappy with the idea of a very simple change.
As usual the "of course there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" brigade are out in force getting worked up about a change that makes no impact or difference to their lives, but may make a meaningful difference to those who are serving now.
To those who say "but standards and in my day" - firstly, the operative phrase is 'your day' - that was then, this is now. Thank you for your service, but let those who are serving now express a view on what they want - your views are an irrelevance. Secondly, the RAF is always changing and has done since it was formed. The RAF you served in was so different to the one you joined, the one you learned about as a kid, and the one you left as to be a never permanent organisation - don't assume that because things were done a certain way once, that this continues to make sense.
Finally, you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have - you may want to get all angry and hit the keyboard moaning about snowflakes and diversity and how it was better when you were in - but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now. I personally think they deserve more respect than being insulted by yesterdays men who are unhappy with the idea of a very simple change.
"back in the day", Airmen made sense. Society has changed - 1 in 5 of the RAF is not male, so airmen seems inaccurate and innapropriate.
As usual the "of course there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" brigade are out in force getting worked up about a change that makes no impact or difference to their lives, but may make a meaningful difference to those who are serving now.
To those who say "but standards and in my day" - firstly, the operative phrase is 'your day' - that was then, this is now. Thank you for your service, but let those who are serving now express a view on what they want - your views are an irrelevance. Secondly, the RAF is always changing and has done since it was formed. The RAF you served in was so different to the one you joined, the one you learned about as a kid, and the one you left as to be a never permanent organisation - don't assume that because things were done a certain way once, that this continues to make sense.
Finally, you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have - you may want to get all angry and hit the keyboard moaning about snowflakes and diversity and how it was better when you were in - but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now. I personally think they deserve more respect than being insulted by yesterdays men who are unhappy with the idea of a very simple change.
As usual the "of course there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" brigade are out in force getting worked up about a change that makes no impact or difference to their lives, but may make a meaningful difference to those who are serving now.
To those who say "but standards and in my day" - firstly, the operative phrase is 'your day' - that was then, this is now. Thank you for your service, but let those who are serving now express a view on what they want - your views are an irrelevance. Secondly, the RAF is always changing and has done since it was formed. The RAF you served in was so different to the one you joined, the one you learned about as a kid, and the one you left as to be a never permanent organisation - don't assume that because things were done a certain way once, that this continues to make sense.
Finally, you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have - you may want to get all angry and hit the keyboard moaning about snowflakes and diversity and how it was better when you were in - but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now. I personally think they deserve more respect than being insulted by yesterdays men who are unhappy with the idea of a very simple change.
The USAF is sticking with the generic term "Airmen" for all ranks, Air Force Speciality Codes (AFSCs) and genders.
The US Space Force recently adopted the term "Guardians".
The US Space Force recently adopted the term "Guardians".
