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What is going on at the top??

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What is going on at the top??

Old 29th Nov 2021, 21:40
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Originally Posted by LS8C1 View Post
Don't really know why people are getting so heated about this. Myself as a serving pilot in the military know I fly planes. Our new 'aviators' who support the mission know they don't fly planes. Someone who's in the flying branch must have a fair few insecurities if they're worried that those in ground roles have been given a title that may somehow make others think they get airborne as part of their job. As a qualified serving pilot you should have nothing to prove to anyone. Which does make me wonder who the majority of people commenting on this thread are.
Indeed, you are correct. Some like Rigga fly an office. They have not been in the military for eons. Others have been out of the military way longer that I have. I have been out of the service for half the time I was in, that was over a pension engagement. Majority of the people commenting are retired. Some of them I wager, were bullying juniors in their day as it was the done thing. I am woke to bullying. I would smash a bully in the face if I saw such happening now. Regardless of the court case facing myself. I do as an old boy, sorry an aircraft engineer, hate people using the word "Planes" to refer to aeronautical machines. Aeroplane (The English word), Airplane (FAA) or Aircraft. Not a Chippy or Astral Plane!
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 21:44
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Do police dog handlers still have an Air Dog, or do they have to use Air Bitch?
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 22:31
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Originally Posted by Wensleydale View Post
Do police dog handlers still have an Air Dog, or do they have to use Air Bitch?
"Brain on a Chain" is the correct answer.
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:00
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genderless noun, ideal
In fact, the ideal genderless noun contains … drum roll … man!

The etymology from Olde English for a male and female is werman for a male, and wifman for a female. Look it up if you don’t believe that. The wer , or sometimes wir, means male and is still used in words like werwolf (or werewolf as it now spelt) which literally meant manwolf. As for wif, that means woman and so wifman is a woman person. So the word man actually means person which is why we still have gender neutral terms such as human, mankind or gendered terms like woman - all with the word man in them!

Link to one of hundreds of articles on the subject: https://www.dailywritingtips.com/wer...man-and-woman/

So a person who is working in the air environment is … drum roll … an Airman!

Now I maybe Aircrew, that some would correctly call an Aviator, but that is because I am male. If I was female, or identified as one, then I would be an Aviatrix - as per one of our most famous Aviatrixes of them all, Ms Amy Johnson. Aviatrix ? Amy Johnson Arts Trust

Women have had a tough enough time over some of the gender politics recently, surely we’re not about to cancel out the word Aviatrix that belongs to the brave female Pilots and Navigators over the past 100 years or so. Bonkers…
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:31
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
In fact, the ideal genderless noun contains … drum roll … man!


…..

Women have had a tough enough time over some of the gender politics recently, surely we’re not about to cancel out the word Aviatrix that belongs to the brave female Pilots and Navigators over the past 100 years or so. Bonkers…
If you were quoting my post the ideal genderless name I suggested was aeronaut. Not a man in sight!

Why aviatrix? Aviator is not a Greek root and I believe the word was not coined until 1927. Predated by aviatrice and aviatress so they have seniority.
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:40
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
If you were quoting my post the ideal genderless name I suggested was aeronaut. Not a man in sight!

Why aviatrix? Aviator is not a Greek root and I believe the word was not coined until 1927. Predated by aviatrice and aviatress so they have seniority.
Aviatrix, Aviatrice and Aviatress - all feminine nouns of the male noun Aviator. Which is why we agree.

As for Aeronaut - well naut is from nautes in Ancient Greek, which means sailor. So to me, an Air Sailor is more likely to be a flyer or operator too?

PS. Trenchard, Henderson, Sykes, et al went around this buoy many times in 1918/1919 on the formation of the RAF and Airman was chosen at that point as a person of the air. So really who are we to change that?
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 00:01
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Just had to register again after many moons away as I couldn't believe the woke idiocy I have recently read regading rank/title/gender pronouns being foisted on the service I loved and am now sadly becoming ashamed of.
Last Christmas's CinC 'effort' was cringeworthy, 70 Sqn boss blubbing on national TV and being given a 'that's OK type hug' by one of his SNCO's (WHAT???) a disgrace, vegan boots and now a Gender Network just confuse everybody and give those of a determination that there's other than male/female genders something toget all upset about.

Can I suggest those who wish to foist this 'progressive nonsense' on a once proud service call themselves 'AirEunuch' as it seems to adequatelty describe those who have none with which to stand against this rapid descent into ridicule.

Imagine the next war/conflict which will undoubtedly be lost because so much time will be wasted on hurt feelings there won't be time to fight....there will be more disciplinary hearings over 'hurt feelings' because someone calls another by the wrong gender, aircraft will potentially be lost because a pilot uses one of the the two gender ID's to his/her wing'person' instead of 'Ze', 'Per' and 'Hir' who then throws a hissy fit, crew cohesion falls apart because a crew 'person' takes umbrage at not being recognised as a non binary 'tomato'! Chaos will reign because no one will be able to remember who the hell is what......male/female/trans/'Ze', 'Per' and 'Hir' or any one of the other 90+ pronouns that are being made available for nutjobs to align with.

Serving today must be a daily nightmare with lunatics running the outfit.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 00:16
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Just refer to all as mate, CAS,SWO or wing commander,their little faces would light up!
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 00:17
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
Aviatrix, Aviatrice and Aviatress - all feminine nouns of the male noun Aviator. Which is why we agree.

As for Aeronaut - well naut is from nautes in Ancient Greek, which means sailor. So to me, an Air Sailor is more likely to be a flyer or operator too?

PS. Trenchard, Henderson, Sykes, et al went around this buoy many times in 1918/1919 on the formation of the RAF and Airman was chosen at that point as a person of the air. So really who are we to change that?
We are at cross purposes. Aeronaut like astronaut, has no implied gender so gets round the aviator, -trice, -tress, -trix issue was the only point I was making

Yes all sailors “operate” but only one of them steers but they are all part of a crew and they all have their part to play. In fact, in a ship, while operating is the goal, it is the last priority, the greater priorities being to float and to move. Having served in both colours of blue, I find there are a lot of parallels between a ship and a Station. To get an aircraft into the air is at the end of a long chain of tasks, all of which have to be performed by members of the “crew”. In my experience, many aircrew do not appreciate just how far that chain extends.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 02:20
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Aviator

I rest my case.

You’d think he had better things to do.

Mog (aviator and sailor)[/QUOTE]


Totally agree ( aviator & sailor )
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 06:39
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Calling every member of the RAF an 'aviator' is as silly as calling every NHS worker a 'doctor', everyone in education a 'professor', and everyone in catering a 'chef'.
This has already happened in US universities and it’s creeping here. When I was at university, our faculty had one Professor - the boss. Now it has about a dozen professors of different grades.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 07:17
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Saintsman
Sorry, but 'Aviator' does not sound as intimidating as 'Airman' when its shouted out by the SWO (though they are probably not allowed to do that anymore in case it upsets someone...).
I'm aware of a currently serving officer being taken aside by the SWO and being advised that he should have had a heart to heart chat with the 2 airmen that the officer had reprimanded for slouching along jackets open, hands in pockets and no cap, never mind not saluting an officer. Discipline is way down the tubes now.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 08:27
  #73 (permalink)  
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 09:18
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"When I was at university, our faculty had one Professor - the boss."

All shal prizes I'm afraid - just look at the CofE - more bishops than attendees
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 09:36
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This thread certainly has the Pterosaurs in a tizzy…
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 09:59
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Originally Posted by Wensleydale View Post
Do police dog handlers still have an Air Dog, or do they have to use Air Bitch?
Surely it should be 'Air Canine' in case offence is caused?
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 10:14
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Ninthace Your sailor has a role in the operation of the ship? Where you say that everyone doesn’t steer the ship, then I completely agree, but if you have an operating role on the ship then you are by definition not a passenger. Now I presume that a ship/boat is seen as an equivalent of an aircraft, so therefore only nauts should be those that operate the aircraft in some way or another? If you have an operating role on the ship then you are a sailor, if you don’t then you are a passenger. I would offer that a RAF Station has more in common with a Royal Naval Base and Dockyard rather than a ship?

avioniker speak for yourself. There are plenty of baby Pterosaurs that are equally not in agreement with these suggestions. When this survey comes out then maybe it will be a surprise to all (one way or another). I see it like a referendum when often the most unexpected results upset the elite…
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 10:30
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When the RAF was formed, one of the proposals for top brass ranks was something like: 1st , 2nd, 3rd Avion.
Now we shall have Leading Aviator, Senior Aviator, Senior Technician Aviator, Chief Technician Aviator, Master Aviator and Warrant Officer Aviator. Cor! what a lot to remember!
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 10:32
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Was the old system broken? How many people have complained? If the answers are no, and very few, why change? Genuine question.

Tinkering with the non-essential removes effort available to tackle bigger issues.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 10:32
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Out of interest, does anyone actually refer to US Space Force personnel as 'Guardians'?
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