A Failure of Values
I don't know (though I have been out for a whole 6 months now) but in my areas the culture certainly had and was still changing. Saw things get stopped before they could become an issue and offenders dealt with appropriately.
Maybe it's down to where you work? Pockets survice in some places?
Maybe it's down to where you work? Pockets survice in some places?
I don't know (though I have been out for a whole 6 months now) but in my areas the culture certainly had and was still changing. Saw things get stopped before they could become an issue and offenders dealt with appropriately.
Maybe it's down to where you work? Pockets survice in some places?
Maybe it's down to where you work? Pockets survice in some places?
are you sure sure that it’s “better” where you were?
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Nine rapes reported over a 13 month period at Harrogate Military College that trains 16-17 year olds for military service!!!
WTF is going on?
Nine rapes at Harrogate military college reported to civilian police in 13 months (msn.com)
WTF is going on?
Nine rapes at the Harrogate military college, which trains 16- and 17-year-olds for careers in the British army, were reported to civilian police over a 13-month period to the middle of August, figures show.
Disclosed under freedom of information legislation, the figures raise questions about safeguarding at Harrogate, and why its welfare arrangements are rated as “outstanding” by Ofsted.
North Yorkshire’s police and crime commissioner said that “13 sexual offences” at the Army Foundation college were reported between 22 July 2022 and 17 August 2023, including nine reports of rape, two of sexual assault and two of voyeurism.
No details were given as to whether they led to investigations or prosecutions, or the gender of the victims. It follows a string of reports of rape, abuse and harassment across the UK military, with the majority of the victims being women and girls.
This week, it emerged that a 19-year-old Royal Artillery gunner, Jaysley Beck, was believed to have killed herself at Larkhill camp, in Wiltshire, after a period of relentless sexual harassment by one of her superiors.
During 2021, there were 22 victims of sexual offences at the Harrogate college. In January 2023 one instructor, Cpl Simon Bartram, was sentenced to 20 months’ military detention, after being found guilty at court martial of sexual assault and eight counts of cruel or indecent disgraceful conduct.
Disclosed under freedom of information legislation, the figures raise questions about safeguarding at Harrogate, and why its welfare arrangements are rated as “outstanding” by Ofsted.
North Yorkshire’s police and crime commissioner said that “13 sexual offences” at the Army Foundation college were reported between 22 July 2022 and 17 August 2023, including nine reports of rape, two of sexual assault and two of voyeurism.
No details were given as to whether they led to investigations or prosecutions, or the gender of the victims. It follows a string of reports of rape, abuse and harassment across the UK military, with the majority of the victims being women and girls.
This week, it emerged that a 19-year-old Royal Artillery gunner, Jaysley Beck, was believed to have killed herself at Larkhill camp, in Wiltshire, after a period of relentless sexual harassment by one of her superiors.
During 2021, there were 22 victims of sexual offences at the Harrogate college. In January 2023 one instructor, Cpl Simon Bartram, was sentenced to 20 months’ military detention, after being found guilty at court martial of sexual assault and eight counts of cruel or indecent disgraceful conduct.
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To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, with reference to the Sexual Offences in the Service Justice System statistics for 2021 published on 31 March 2022, how many of the 47 victims of sexual offences cases aged under 18 were based at the Army Foundation College at the time of the offence.
Answered on
26 April 2022Of the 47 victims in those statistics, 37 were female and of those cases one has been proven, four are ongoing, and 11 have been transferred to the civilian police. 22 were based at the Army Foundation College at the time of the offence.
I'm not saying that it may be service wide, but in my corner, yes.
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I didn't personally change the culture on my own. But I would say it was a combination of both policy and crucially a senior management team that adopted a zero tolerance policy to unsavoury behaviour. We also had a very open culture whereby people came forward when there were issues, both personally or third parties when they witnessed things.
Yeah I can I think. People were dislipined and removed were I worked for inappropriate behaviour, and people came forward with complaints when needed. Would we catch everything, probably not, no one is perfect, but I think we had a culture in the Org that everyone knew where they stood with this type of thing.
I'm not saying that it may be service wide, but in my corner, yes.
Yeah I can I think. People were dislipined and removed were I worked for inappropriate behaviour, and people came forward with complaints when needed. Would we catch everything, probably not, no one is perfect, but I think we had a culture in the Org that everyone knew where they stood with this type of thing.
I'm not saying that it may be service wide, but in my corner, yes.
Well done.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tile-behaviour
Sixty women at MoD complain of widespread ‘toxic’ and ‘hostile’ behaviour
Sixty senior women at the UK’s Ministry of Defence have described a “hostile” and “toxic” culture at the department in a letter that alleges sexual assault, harassment and abuse by male colleagues.
The letter, seen by the Guardian, was sent last month by a large group of senior civil servants to the MoD’s permanent secretary alongside anonymised testimonies in which women described their personal experiences.
The accounts included claims that women had been “propositioned”, “groped” and “touched repeatedly” by male colleagues at the MoD in a workplace culture the civil servants said was “hostile to women as equal and respected partners”.
In the letter, which is marked “official-sensitive”, the group of “senior civilian women”said their “day-to-day professional lives are made difficult thanks to behaviours that would be considered toxic and inappropriate in public life, but that are tolerated at the MoD”.....
The accounts, which the letter said came from “senior civilian women in operational and security roles”, include:
According to the letter, attempts by women at the MoD to speak out against the behaviour “are generally minimised rather than listened to, and it is common knowledge among women that [the MoD’s] complaints system is not fit for purpose”.....
Among the accounts of sexual harassment and inappropriate behaviour included in the letter, women said they had felt uncomfortable and unsafe while working at the MoD’s headquarters, known as Main Building, in Whitehall.
“The groups of men staring is horrible,” said one woman, describing her experience of walking through one of the building’s main hallways. “The constant objectification and harassment is appalling. Behaviours that are completely unacceptable on public transport, for example, are accepted in pockets of Main Building.”
According to another woman, a sexual advance from a senior military official had a lasting effect on her. “It shattered my confidence and, I hate having to say this, I couldn’t help but question whether it was my fault: what is it about me that made this man think he could do this?......
Sixty women at MoD complain of widespread ‘toxic’ and ‘hostile’ behaviour
Sixty senior women at the UK’s Ministry of Defence have described a “hostile” and “toxic” culture at the department in a letter that alleges sexual assault, harassment and abuse by male colleagues.
The letter, seen by the Guardian, was sent last month by a large group of senior civil servants to the MoD’s permanent secretary alongside anonymised testimonies in which women described their personal experiences.
The accounts included claims that women had been “propositioned”, “groped” and “touched repeatedly” by male colleagues at the MoD in a workplace culture the civil servants said was “hostile to women as equal and respected partners”.
In the letter, which is marked “official-sensitive”, the group of “senior civilian women”said their “day-to-day professional lives are made difficult thanks to behaviours that would be considered toxic and inappropriate in public life, but that are tolerated at the MoD”.....
The accounts, which the letter said came from “senior civilian women in operational and security roles”, include:
- A woman who said she was groped at an MoD social function but was advised against complaining.
- A woman on an overseas posting who said she was “touched repeatedly on the lower back and legs by a senior military officer” but the “perpetrator went unpunished”.
- The claim thata group of military officers kept an “Excel spreadsheet that rated women” based on “their looks and what they thought they’d be like in bed”.
- A woman who said that before an evening event, a “defence senior” asked a woman “whether anal sex was an appropriate topic for his speech”.
- An account of how a military officer “propositioned” a woman “late at night in a corridor” on an overseas military base.
According to the letter, attempts by women at the MoD to speak out against the behaviour “are generally minimised rather than listened to, and it is common knowledge among women that [the MoD’s] complaints system is not fit for purpose”.....
Among the accounts of sexual harassment and inappropriate behaviour included in the letter, women said they had felt uncomfortable and unsafe while working at the MoD’s headquarters, known as Main Building, in Whitehall.
“The groups of men staring is horrible,” said one woman, describing her experience of walking through one of the building’s main hallways. “The constant objectification and harassment is appalling. Behaviours that are completely unacceptable on public transport, for example, are accepted in pockets of Main Building.”
According to another woman, a sexual advance from a senior military official had a lasting effect on her. “It shattered my confidence and, I hate having to say this, I couldn’t help but question whether it was my fault: what is it about me that made this man think he could do this?......
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...ears-q3xdxkb0t
MoD bullying and discrimination payouts double in two years
Payouts for bullying, harassment and discrimination by the Ministry of Defence have more than doubled in what has been condemned as a “shocking” waste of talent and money.
The number of settlements, as well as the average amount paid to victims, has risen sharply over the past two years, it has emerged.….
New figures show that the number of payouts for bullying and harassment was fewer than five in 2020-21, rising to six in 2021-22 and doubling to 12 in 2022-23.
Over the same period, the average compensation sum went from £100,527 in 2020-21 to £228,669 the following year and £235,564 in 2022-23.
Civilian bullying complaints that were upheld jumped from 24 in 2020 to 33 this year. During the same period, the number of sexual harassment complaints from civilian staff rose from 6 to 16.
Among military personnel, there have been 298 bullying complaints upheld since 2020, as well as 111 relating to discrimination and a further 46 concerning harassment.
Andrew Murrison, the defence minister, revealed the figures in response to written questions by Maria Eagle, the shadow defence procurement minister. It lifts the lid on the extent of inappropriate behaviour that critics say is prolific within the MoD.…..
Eagle also raised concerns about the “deeply concerning trend within the MoD”. She said: “Ministers must lead from the top to root out unacceptable behaviour in the MoD and the armed forces.
“Labour in government will also legislate to establish an armed forces commissioner to act as a strong independent voice to improve the lives of serving personnel and their families.”….
MoD bullying and discrimination payouts double in two years
Payouts for bullying, harassment and discrimination by the Ministry of Defence have more than doubled in what has been condemned as a “shocking” waste of talent and money.
The number of settlements, as well as the average amount paid to victims, has risen sharply over the past two years, it has emerged.….
New figures show that the number of payouts for bullying and harassment was fewer than five in 2020-21, rising to six in 2021-22 and doubling to 12 in 2022-23.
Over the same period, the average compensation sum went from £100,527 in 2020-21 to £228,669 the following year and £235,564 in 2022-23.
Civilian bullying complaints that were upheld jumped from 24 in 2020 to 33 this year. During the same period, the number of sexual harassment complaints from civilian staff rose from 6 to 16.
Among military personnel, there have been 298 bullying complaints upheld since 2020, as well as 111 relating to discrimination and a further 46 concerning harassment.
Andrew Murrison, the defence minister, revealed the figures in response to written questions by Maria Eagle, the shadow defence procurement minister. It lifts the lid on the extent of inappropriate behaviour that critics say is prolific within the MoD.…..
Eagle also raised concerns about the “deeply concerning trend within the MoD”. She said: “Ministers must lead from the top to root out unacceptable behaviour in the MoD and the armed forces.
“Labour in government will also legislate to establish an armed forces commissioner to act as a strong independent voice to improve the lives of serving personnel and their families.”….
Is harassment [I choose only one of the spectrum of unacceptable behaviours] a growing phenomenon, or was it ever thus, and is now a Me Too construct?
My last contact with the RAF was 1997, and in 41 years the nearest I came to victimhood was with several OCs Ops or OCs Flying leaning on me to moderate forecasts that did not suit their programme .............. cross wind, thunderstorm warning, that sort of thing.
The strength of that relationship was that Met was civilian, with an independent chain of command. Only in the most severe cases did the matter cause a Station Commander to ask for removal, and that was invariably acted on, as it should be.
My last contact with the RAF was 1997, and in 41 years the nearest I came to victimhood was with several OCs Ops or OCs Flying leaning on me to moderate forecasts that did not suit their programme .............. cross wind, thunderstorm warning, that sort of thing.
The strength of that relationship was that Met was civilian, with an independent chain of command. Only in the most severe cases did the matter cause a Station Commander to ask for removal, and that was invariably acted on, as it should be.
Is harassment [I choose only one of the spectrum of unacceptable behaviours] a growing phenomenon, or was it ever thus, and is now a Me Too construct?
My last contact with the RAF was 1997, and in 41 years the nearest I came to victimhood was with several OCs Ops or OCs Flying leaning on me to moderate forecasts that did not suit their programme .............. cross wind, thunderstorm warning, that sort of thing.
The strength of that relationship was that Met was civilian, with an independent chain of command. Only in the most severe cases did the matter cause a Station Commander to ask for removal, and that was invariably acted on, as it should be.
My last contact with the RAF was 1997, and in 41 years the nearest I came to victimhood was with several OCs Ops or OCs Flying leaning on me to moderate forecasts that did not suit their programme .............. cross wind, thunderstorm warning, that sort of thing.
The strength of that relationship was that Met was civilian, with an independent chain of command. Only in the most severe cases did the matter cause a Station Commander to ask for removal, and that was invariably acted on, as it should be.
We now have, quite rightly, a zero tolerance attitude. The days of giving “dick soaps” as presents to females, and thinking that was harmless banter, is over.(in addition to much worse inappropriate behaviours).
This means, of course, that there has been an increase of reporting of such behaviours which looks like that the current RAF has a bigger problem. This is not the case. We have a culture now that such behaviour is not tolerated, which means that it is much less prevelent.
All of the females that I talked to, who underwent much worse cases of inappropriate behaviour in the 80s, 80s and 00s, never reported it. They felt they couldn’t, or wouldn’t have been supported had they done so.
We are in a better place. Society and the RAF values do not allow this to happen anymore and, should it do so, the harshest penalties are dished out.
I’m glad that you, as a civilian providing met for the RAF, was never subject to, nor observed, any such behaviour.
Last edited by Toadstool; 28th Dec 2023 at 18:27.
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