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A Failure of Values

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A Failure of Values

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Old 6th October 2023 | 05:57
  #101 (permalink)  
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From: where-ever nav's chooses....
Originally Posted by downsizer
I don't know (though I have been out for a whole 6 months now) but in my areas the culture certainly had and was still changing. Saw things get stopped before they could become an issue and offenders dealt with appropriately.

Maybe it's down to where you work? Pockets survice in some places?
if this young woman hadn’t killed herself, I’m pretty sure no one would’ve intervened (or probably been aware). But she still would’ve been harassed by four separate WOs and NCOs.

are you sure sure that it’s “better” where you were?
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Old 6th October 2023 | 13:53
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Nine rapes reported over a 13 month period at Harrogate Military College that trains 16-17 year olds for military service!!!

WTF is going on?

Nine rapes at the Harrogate military college, which trains 16- and 17-year-olds for careers in the British army, were reported to civilian police over a 13-month period to the middle of August, figures show.

Disclosed under freedom of information legislation, the figures raise questions about safeguarding at Harrogate, and why its welfare arrangements are rated as “outstanding” by Ofsted.
North Yorkshire’s police and crime commissioner said that “13 sexual offences” at the Army Foundation college were reported between 22 July 2022 and 17 August 2023, including nine reports of rape, two of sexual assault and two of voyeurism.

No details were given as to whether they led to investigations or prosecutions, or the gender of the victims. It follows a string of reports of rape, abuse and harassment across the UK military, with the majority of the victims being women and girls.

This week, it emerged that a 19-year-old Royal Artillery gunner, Jaysley Beck, was believed to have killed herself at Larkhill camp, in Wiltshire, after a period of relentless sexual harassment by one of her superiors.

During 2021, there were 22 victims of sexual offences at the Harrogate college. In January 2023 one instructor, Cpl Simon Bartram, was sentenced to 20 months’ military detention, after being found guilty at court martial of sexual assault and eight counts of cruel or indecent disgraceful conduct.
Nine rapes at Harrogate military college reported to civilian police in 13 months (msn.com)
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Old 6th October 2023 | 13:58
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, with reference to the Sexual Offences in the Service Justice System statistics for 2021 published on 31 March 2022, how many of the 47 victims of sexual offences cases aged under 18 were based at the Army Foundation College at the time of the offence.

Answered on

26 April 2022

Of the 47 victims in those statistics, 37 were female and of those cases one has been proven, four are ongoing, and 11 have been transferred to the civilian police. 22 were based at the Army Foundation College at the time of the offence.
https://questions-statements.parliam...-04-14/154397#
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Old 6th October 2023 | 14:58
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From: Around
Originally Posted by trim it out
How did you change the culture out of curiosity? Was it personality or policy driven?
I didn't personally change the culture on my own. But I would say it was a combination of both policy and crucially a senior management team that adopted a zero tolerance policy to unsavoury behaviour. We also had a very open culture whereby people came forward when there were issues, both personally or third parties when they witnessed things.

Originally Posted by alfred_the_great
if this young woman hadn’t killed herself, I’m pretty sure no one would’ve intervened (or probably been aware). But she still would’ve been harassed by four separate WOs and NCOs.

are you sure sure that it’s “better” where you were?
Yeah I can I think. People were dislipined and removed were I worked for inappropriate behaviour, and people came forward with complaints when needed. Would we catch everything, probably not, no one is perfect, but I think we had a culture in the Org that everyone knew where they stood with this type of thing.

I'm not saying that it may be service wide, but in my corner, yes.
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Old 7th October 2023 | 08:10
  #105 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by downsizer
I didn't personally change the culture on my own. But I would say it was a combination of both policy and crucially a senior management team that adopted a zero tolerance policy to unsavoury behaviour. We also had a very open culture whereby people came forward when there were issues, both personally or third parties when they witnessed things.



Yeah I can I think. People were dislipined and removed were I worked for inappropriate behaviour, and people came forward with complaints when needed. Would we catch everything, probably not, no one is perfect, but I think we had a culture in the Org that everyone knew where they stood with this type of thing.

I'm not saying that it may be service wide, but in my corner, yes.
We need far more folk with an attitude like yours in positions of power to bring this abuse to an end.

Well done.

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Old 16th November 2023 | 16:56
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tile-behaviour

Sixty women at MoD complain of widespread ‘toxic’ and ‘hostile’ behaviour

Sixty senior women at the UK’s Ministry of Defence have described a “hostile” and “toxic” culture at the department in a letter that alleges sexual assault, harassment and abuse by male colleagues.

The letter, seen by the Guardian, was sent last month by a large group of senior civil servants to the MoD’s permanent secretary alongside anonymised testimonies in which women described their personal experiences.

The accounts included claims that women had been “propositioned”, “groped” and “touched repeatedly” by male colleagues at the MoD in a workplace culture the civil servants said was “hostile to women as equal and respected partners”.

In the letter, which is marked “official-sensitive”, the group of “senior civilian women”said their “day-to-day professional lives are made difficult thanks to behaviours that would be considered toxic and inappropriate in public life, but that are tolerated at the MoD”.....

The accounts, which the letter said came from “senior civilian women in operational and security roles”, include:
  • A woman who said she was groped at an MoD social function but was advised against complaining.
  • A woman on an overseas posting who said she was “touched repeatedly on the lower back and legs by a senior military officer” but the “perpetrator went unpunished”.
  • The claim thata group of military officers kept an “Excel spreadsheet that rated women” based on “their looks and what they thought they’d be like in bed”.
  • A woman who said that before an evening event, a “defence senior” asked a woman “whether anal sex was an appropriate topic for his speech”.
  • An account of how a military officer “propositioned” a woman “late at night in a corridor” on an overseas military base.
....In the testimonies, which are said to be “the tip of the iceberg” and illustrative of a “current problem, not a historic one”, women described feeling “sick with fear”, “sobbing in the bathroom”, and being subjected to “intimidating” behaviour.

According to the letter, attempts by women at the MoD to speak out against the behaviour “are generally minimised rather than listened to, and it is common knowledge among women that [the MoD’s] complaints system is not fit for purpose”.....

Among the accounts of sexual harassment and inappropriate behaviour included in the letter, women said they had felt uncomfortable and unsafe while working at the MoD’s headquarters, known as Main Building, in Whitehall.

“The groups of men staring is horrible,” said one woman, describing her experience of walking through one of the building’s main hallways. “The constant objectification and harassment is appalling. Behaviours that are completely unacceptable on public transport, for example, are accepted in pockets of Main Building.”

According to another woman, a sexual advance from a senior military official had a lasting effect on her. “It shattered my confidence and, I hate having to say this, I couldn’t help but question whether it was my fault: what is it about me that made this man think he could do this?......
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Old 28th December 2023 | 07:34
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...ears-q3xdxkb0t

MoD bullying and discrimination payouts double in two years

Payouts for bullying, harassment and discrimination by the Ministry of Defence have more than doubled in what has been condemned as a “shocking” waste of talent and money.

The number of settlements, as well as the average amount paid to victims, has risen sharply over the past two years, it has emerged.….

New figures show that the number of payouts for bullying and harassment was fewer than five in 2020-21, rising to six in 2021-22 and doubling to 12 in 2022-23.

Over the same period, the average compensation sum went from £100,527 in 2020-21 to £228,669 the following year and £235,564 in 2022-23.

Civilian bullying complaints that were upheld jumped from 24 in 2020 to 33 this year. During the same period, the number of sexual harassment complaints from civilian staff rose from 6 to 16.

Among military personnel, there have been 298 bullying complaints upheld since 2020, as well as 111 relating to discrimination and a further 46 concerning harassment.

Andrew Murrison, the defence minister, revealed the figures in response to written questions by Maria Eagle, the shadow defence procurement minister. It lifts the lid on the extent of inappropriate behaviour that critics say is prolific within the MoD.…..

Eagle also raised concerns about the “deeply concerning trend within the MoD”. She said: “Ministers must lead from the top to root out unacceptable behaviour in the MoD and the armed forces.

“Labour in government will also legislate to establish an armed forces commissioner to act as a strong independent voice to improve the lives of serving personnel and their families.”….
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Old 28th December 2023 | 14:21
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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From: Baston
Is harassment [I choose only one of the spectrum of unacceptable behaviours] a growing phenomenon, or was it ever thus, and is now a Me Too construct?

My last contact with the RAF was 1997, and in 41 years the nearest I came to victimhood was with several OCs Ops or OCs Flying leaning on me to moderate forecasts that did not suit their programme .............. cross wind, thunderstorm warning, that sort of thing.

The strength of that relationship was that Met was civilian, with an independent chain of command. Only in the most severe cases did the matter cause a Station Commander to ask for removal, and that was invariably acted on, as it should be.
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Old 28th December 2023 | 16:40
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
Is harassment [I choose only one of the spectrum of unacceptable behaviours] a growing phenomenon, or was it ever thus, and is now a Me Too construct?

My last contact with the RAF was 1997, and in 41 years the nearest I came to victimhood was with several OCs Ops or OCs Flying leaning on me to moderate forecasts that did not suit their programme .............. cross wind, thunderstorm warning, that sort of thing.

The strength of that relationship was that Met was civilian, with an independent chain of command. Only in the most severe cases did the matter cause a Station Commander to ask for removal, and that was invariably acted on, as it should be.
LB. It was ever thus. I’ve been in the military for 37 years and have seen and heard of multiple occasions of harassment. Those people who have told me of their stories would be horrified to think that this was a “victimhood”. The difference between now and what happened years ago is that what would have constituted banter years ago (only by men) is now considered inappropriate behaviour. This has led to a culture where this is now much easier to report.
We now have, quite rightly, a zero tolerance attitude. The days of giving “dick soaps” as presents to females, and thinking that was harmless banter, is over.(in addition to much worse inappropriate behaviours).
This means, of course, that there has been an increase of reporting of such behaviours which looks like that the current RAF has a bigger problem. This is not the case. We have a culture now that such behaviour is not tolerated, which means that it is much less prevelent.
All of the females that I talked to, who underwent much worse cases of inappropriate behaviour in the 80s, 80s and 00s, never reported it. They felt they couldn’t, or wouldn’t have been supported had they done so.
We are in a better place. Society and the RAF values do not allow this to happen anymore and, should it do so, the harshest penalties are dished out.
I’m glad that you, as a civilian providing met for the RAF, was never subject to, nor observed, any such behaviour.

Last edited by Toadstool; 28th December 2023 at 18:27.
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Old 18th July 2024 | 09:11
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https://archive.ph/2024.07.17-173317...arge-2bf33730s

Former major general admits disgraceful conduct

A former major general who was tipped as the future head of the British Army has admitted “indecently” playing with a woman’s hair and kissing her while serving as an officer.

James Roddis, 52, a former deputy director of special forces, appeared at a court martial for the first time on Wednesday, having become the most senior officer in centuries to be charged with a sex offence.

His case was thought to have been set for trial, however on Wednesday he admitted to a lesser charge of disgraceful conduct of an indecent kind. He was originally charged under section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act, which covers sexual assault by touching, following a Royal Military Police investigation.

Roddis, a married father of three, was until recently director of strategy at UK military’s Strategic Command, responsible for special forces units and other secretive intelligence-gathering and cyber units. Prior to this The Times understands he was deputy director of special forces.

Roddis attended Bulford Military Court, Wiltshire, on Wednesday via video for a plea and trial preparation hearing. Wearing a dark suit and tie, Roddis spoke only to confirm his name and admit disgraceful conduct of an indecent kind.…..

Roddis is understood to have left the army in recent months.

He has received the UK’s highest award for leadership in combat, Distinguished Service Order, and a mention in dispatches after serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. He was made an MBE in 2009 and earned a pair of Queen’s Commendations for Valuable Service in 2008 and 2017. He also founded the Army’s elite Specialised Infantry Brigade in 2017 and was one of the pallbearers who helped carry Prince Philip’s coffin in 2021.

Roddis will be sentenced at the same court on September 5…..
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Old 6th September 2024 | 06:12
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mn71e41rro

Major General sentenced for drunken touch and kiss

A senior Army officer who drunkenly touched and tried to kiss a woman in a karaoke bar has received a six-month suspended prison sentence.

Now ex-Major General James Roddis was part of an overseas delegation and had been drinking for several hours when he started touching the hair of the woman before kissing her on the lips.

Roddis, 53, was required to resign from the Army following the subsequent misconduct investigation and admitted disgraceful conduct of an indecent kind at a hearing in July.

Suspending the prison sentence for two years, the military board at a court martial in Bulford, Wiltshire, also ordered him to 30 days of rehabilitation, 150 hours unpaid work and to pay his victim £2,500 compensation…….

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Old 6th September 2024 | 09:24
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Originally Posted by West Coast
Agree, that seems a little over the top. Actually, a lot over the top.
I think that's 'down-blousing', also a criminal offence.
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Old 6th September 2024 | 10:08
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It seems he had form - apparently forfeited 2* seniority last year following complaints from female civil servants. That, and the zero tolerance policy, probably explains why the Army Board was so quick to require his resignation.
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Old 17th September 2024 | 21:59
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Another career gone in a moment of drunken stupidity….

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-forces.html

RAF officer dismissed for groping servicewoman in nightclub
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Old 17th September 2024 | 23:12
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Another career gone in a moment of drunken stupidity….

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-forces.html

RAF officer dismissed for groping servicewoman in nightclub
Ego over common sense. It isn't allow in Civvy Street. Fool has blown a flying career outside of the RAF with a criminal record.
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Old 18th September 2024 | 05:41
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Crystal Ball

I know what might be happening in the heads of some on here. Some guys will be thinking “we used to do this all the time, it wasn’t a problem”.

Well I’ve spoken to my wife about this before. She had her bum groped many times in bars and clubs. And do know what? She hated it. Every time.

If this guy was too stupid to realise this is not acceptable, then he shouldn’t be flying HM’s aircraft.

BV
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Old 20th February 2025 | 14:49
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From: Scotland
BBC: Army mishandled sex assault before death - coroner

'The death of a soldier left terrified after being sexually assaulted by her superior was, in part, caused by the British Army's handling of her complaint, a coroner says.Royal Artillery Gunner Jaysley Beck, 19, was found hanged in her barracks at Larkhill Camp in Wiltshire on 15 December 2021 after a Christmas party.

Gunner Beck had filed a complaint against Battery Sergeant Major Michael Webber after he "pinned her down" and tried to kiss her at a work social.

On Thursday Assistant Coroner Nicholas Rheinberg ruled she died by suicide and determined the Army's handling of the complaint played "more than a minimal contributory part in her death".'
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Old 15th June 2025 | 22:08
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...t-are-unlawful

UK minister admits rules banning armed forces from speaking out are unlawful

The UK defence secretary, John Healey, has conceded that policies that banned members of the armed forces from speaking to the press or MPs without permission are unlawful, after a legal challenge was brought by two women who complained they were raped while serving.

The women, from the RAF and Royal Navy, argued the restrictive regulations had prevented them from speaking out publicly about their experiences and how their complaints were handled by the chain of command and military police.

One of the women, known as PGH for legal reasons, said in a court statement that “I do not have the freedom to choose to speak about my ordeal on my own terms”, and argued that the old gagging orders reinforced a culture of closing ranks that tolerated rape and sexual assault.

“The policy makes perpetrators of sexual violence feel protected and that they can trust their colleagues to help cover up their actions,” she said.

At first, the Ministry of Defence tried to strike out the claim, arguing it was irrelevant because it had introduced a looser policy earlier this year. But a high court judge, Mr Justice Saini, ruled last month that the MoD had a case to answer, because of the impact the old policy had on the women concerned.

That verdict prompted the MoD to concede, in a letter sent to the women’s lawyer earlier this month. It says that Healey “now accepts” the gagging orders “were unlawful”, because they are incompatible with military personnel’s freedom of expression and other rights.

The first woman, know as EPX to protect her anonymity, said she was raped by a male colleague during her initial RAF training. After making a service complaint she said she was ostracised and told the situation was her fault.

Subsequently, the person accused of assaulting her was acquitted of rape at a military court, in a trial that EPX said in a statement was “poorly handled”.

The second woman, PGH, said she was raped at a social event at a navy base where she, according to her own statement, was “plied with alcohol”. Military police were “very disbelieving” of her claim and “made excuses on behalf of the accused”, the high court judge said as he set out her case. No charges were ultimately brought.

EPX said she had wanted to talk to the media about what happened in response to a July 2021 parliamentary inquiry. That concluded that two-thirds of women in the armed forces had experienced bullying, sexual harassment and discrimination duringtheir career, and said the military was “failing to protect” female personnel.

The MoD vetoed her request, citing the ban, meaning she has never been able to give her account of events in public. “I want the freedom to be able to express my views and to talk about my personal experiences in relation to any or all of the above issues, without the MoD having a veto,” EPX said in a statement of claim.

The prospect of having to seek permission from superiors to speak to a journalist or MP would, EPX said, fill her with “dread and worry”. Providing enough information about her case to seek permission would amount to “a huge invasion of my personal information” and she said she had no confidence “this would be handled with sensitivity and confidentiality” by the armed forces.

The two women are planning to continue their legal action because they say the MoD’s new personnel policies fail to make explicit that members of the armed forces have the right to communicate with the press and parliament on serious sexual offences and related matters.

Emma Norton, from the Centre for Military Justice, who is acting for EPX and PGH, said her clients were not seeking the right to discuss classified or operational information, but instead “things which have no place in any unit of the armed forces, any other public or private sector workplace or indeed wider society, namely rape, sexual assault, misogyny and the sexual harassment of women”.

Allegations of serious sexual offences, the vast majority against women, are threatening to engulf the military. In February, online forums were flooded with testimonies of abuse in the aftermath of the inquest into the death of 19-year-old gunner Jaysley Beck. She had committed suicide after allegedly being sexually assaulted by a colleague and subjected to a barrage of unwanted attention from her boss.

An MoD spokesperson said: “The welfare of all our Armed Forces is an absolute priority. The relevant policies were amended and recognise the rights of all our people.

“It would be inappropriate to comment further while legal proceedings are ongoing.”
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Old 15th June 2025 | 22:14
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From: Baston
The welfare of all our Armed Forces is an absolute priority.

Bollocks. Covering your arses is Number One.
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