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A Failure of Values

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A Failure of Values

Old 2nd Aug 2021, 11:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Some of the posters here are admirably demonstrating why this problem is so very real.
...and (in my opinion) mistakenly concentrating on the problems for females. This is to do with power, not sexual misbehaviour. The problems at Deepcut and other recruit training establishments are not solely directed at women - indeed, they are, probably, not in the majority. Mis-use of power, at whatever level of command structure has always been a feature of 'group culture' -school, University, Service or civilian, makes no odds. The 'nature of power' makes it possible (and inevitable) and the 'nature of power' makes remediation extremely difficult.
For doubters, note Ms Patel. ... and, surprisingly, that is not intended politically.
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 21:13
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I have often thought about that incident. Had I given in to my instinct as a father it could have become difficult - today it would be called abuse or sexual harassment but I am sure it would have helped.[/QUOTE]

I fear we live in a nastier world than hitherto.
As an example, I fathered four children, and have seven grandchildren, and two ggchildren. I happen to like children after they reach about two years old and are potty trained and communicative.
And yet, as I walk past any school playground, I dare not admire their antics, laugh at their tumbles, listen to their squeaky voices. Like most men these days, I hasten by, lest I be perceived as a dirty old man.
That is a great sadness of modern times.
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 21:58
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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And yet, as I walk past any school playground, I dare not admire their antics, laugh at their tumbles, listen to their squeaky voices. Like most men these days, I hasten by, lest I be perceived as a dirty old man.
That is a great sadness of modern times.
In my schoolie days, there was an elderly man named Viv Rich (RIP) living directly opposite the school. He was a proper old school gent. I recall him writing to the local rag's letters page along the lines of:

"How wonderful it is to look over the fence and see the enjoyment in the children as they go about their learning and play; and to marvel at the endlessly varied activities their teachers provide."

We all thought it was a wonderful compliment! But even then I was saddened to think of how some would read such a letter. Still am.

CG



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Old 3rd Aug 2021, 09:57
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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... and still, the concentration on the effects, not the cause.
The cause being power, the problem is self-perpetuating - the powerful will always protect themselves and/or their colleagues as a natural function of self protection. Why does the Buffoon back Patel, Jenrick, and Cummings and Hancock until forced to change ? Power has a natural corrupting effect. It takes particularly self-reliant, self-confident (in the best sense) characters to accept the responsibilities of positions of power and discharge them for the benefit of those placed in their care and oversight. I have been fortunate enough to serve with a few ... but many more of the less accomplished.
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Old 4th Aug 2021, 23:23
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
It just amazes me, I don’t know if it’s me or has the world moved on and got worse for it, my first tour was at a nearly all male station with one WRAF married to a guy on the Sqn and we all got on like a house on fire.

Posted to RAFG there were WRAF who would use the NAAFI who we would socialise with and again we all got on like a house on fire, yes we were male they were female, but it was more than that, they were mates if that makes sense, as an example Christmas morning etc we were invited around the WRAF block for Champagne etc, we were friends and I will forever remember quaffing Champagne as the girls opened their presents from under the tree. No hassle no grief.
One friend I gave a giant soap on a rope penis carved from those gawd awful bars of carbolic soap we used to have as a 21st present, it was taken as intended as a bit of fun which she loved and it was worn all night around her neck, I then did several requests.
What I am trying to get across was there was no animosity, no worry, and we all got along as both professionals and friends, what on earth has changed?
Would love to know how your female ‘friends’ would view this as they reminisce about those days
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 01:02
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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The Army? Majority are Army? Navy and Air Force are not innocent either. How many people on here have daughters? A good question. I have two and they are have been brought up as humans. They are modern people. They didn't join the military as they saw the rubbish as kids and worked above it. A shame as they would be top leaders. They are in the NHS. I am proud of that.
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 00:33
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
The Army? Majority are Army? Navy and Air Force are not innocent either. How many people on here have daughters? A good question. I have two and they are have been brought up as humans. They are modern people. They didn't join the military as they saw the rubbish as kids and worked above it. A shame as they would be top leaders. They are in the NHS. I am proud of that.
Are you glad you served, or sorry?
Is it and was it a heap of sh1t, and you made a mistake joining?.


Or did and does the Royal Air Force do its excellent best despite difficult times, poor politicians, and internal whingers?
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 10:13
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
The Army? Majority are Army? Navy and Air Force are not innocent either. How many people on here have daughters? A good question. I have two and they are have been brought up as humans. They are modern people. They didn't join the military as they saw the rubbish as kids and worked above it. A shame as they would be top leaders. They are in the NHS. I am proud of that.

Are they “top leaders” in the NHS?
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 13:51
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Good post Cat, it saddens me that we all come into this world free from sexism, racism, religion, superiority / inferiority complexes. They are all sadly taught to them by their piers and elders.
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 15:11
  #30 (permalink)  

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They are all sadly taught to them by their piers and elders.
On their visits to the seaside I presume?
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 15:15
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Good post Cat, it saddens me that we all come into this world free from sexism, racism, religion, superiority / inferiority complexes. They are all sadly taught to them by their piers and elders.
Surely Lightning and Harrier pilots must have realised very early on that they were brilliant?
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 18:38
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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...And wokka pilots!
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 22:35
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I always found wokka pilots had a good vibe……
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 06:15
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Chopper pilots get it up a lot more often than airline pilots.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 14:19
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I recall being at an RAF g base, guto I think when a female joined us in the bar wearing a skirt made from many squadron ties .
When I asked how she got so many blokes to part with essential item of kit she laughed and said I'm saving up for a jacket
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Old 2nd Oct 2021, 10:10
  #36 (permalink)  
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Old 18th Oct 2021, 07:08
  #37 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...tary-pkvck6nbg

Tenfold rise in rapes and sexual assaults on girls in military

Complaints of rape and sexual assault made by girls under 18 in the military have risen tenfold since 2015, Ministry of Defence figures reveal.

Freedom of information requests show that girls under 18 in the armed forces have made 41 complaints of rape and sexual assault to the military police since 2015. With an average of 215 girls under 18 serving between 2015 and 2020, it is said to be equivalent to one report for every 40 girls. This makes girls in the armed forces more than twice as likely as their civilian counterparts to report a rape or sexual assault to police.

The numbers have emerged as the Armed Forces Bill progresses through the Lords. The Lyons Review, commissioned in advance of the bill, recommended that serious crimes including rape are removed from the military’s internal systems and handed to the civilian police, but the bill does not seek this.

Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, lifted a gagging order this year to allow servicewomen to give evidence to a defence committee inquiry into women in the armed forces. One in ten serving women made a submission, and 64 per cent of veterans and 58 per cent of serving women said that they had experienced bullying, harassment and discrimination. Six in ten did not report what happened and a third of those who did said that the experience was “extremely poor”.

Martin Docherty-Hughes, a member of the committee, said that the “sickening” new numbers showed that the government needed to “act hard and act fast to root out this horror”.

Charlotte Cooper, from the Child Rights International Network, who made the FOI requests, said: “Any rape or sexual assault of a child in an institution tasked with their care is unacceptable but one report for every 40 girls is abhorrent. This would never be considered acceptable in a civilian school or workplace.”

In the past year more than 3,000 teenagers under 18 enlisted, mainly to the army, where they make up a quarter of the intake. The numbers of enlisted girls aged 16 and 17 grew from 190 in 2015 to 290 this year. So far in 2021 there have been ten reports of rape and sexual assault, or one for every 29 girls…….
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Old 31st Oct 2021, 10:46
  #38 (permalink)  
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Old 24th Nov 2021, 13:57
  #39 (permalink)  
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Old 24th Nov 2021, 22:04
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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I have no time for men who abuse women in any way, but it is certainly a new world when this is a thing:



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