USAF Badges purge
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 76
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I'm not offended by nose art, naked ladies or otherwise, I just think it is generally pretty tacky and does nothing to enhance the looks of the aircraft. There is currently a discussion on the V Force page on Facebook about this subject, with particular reference to Victor tankers , and someone has shown the photo of a Victor K2 with shark's teeth on the nose. Personally I think it looked ghastly, and why anyone would want to thus adorn one of the most supremely beautiful RAF aircraft is beyond me. As a certain MRAF once said about the Sainsbury Wing of the National Gallery, "it is like a monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much loved elegant friend".
Had to look that up Satco, glad I did, found their FB page, made an old mans day.
mopardave, next the PC lot will be demanding all those risque paintings by the old masters hanging in the art displays be taken down.
mopardave, next the PC lot will be demanding all those risque paintings by the old masters hanging in the art displays be taken down.
I certainly don't have an issue with preventing nose art or comments that are unacceptable today. But I do feel uncomfortable with attempts to change History, - especially if that historical name or title was important at the time.
For example - Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC who led the dams raid had a labrador dog which had a name which rightly would be unacceptable today. The dog was run over and killed a couple of hours before Gibson and 617 Squadron took off on the raid. Gibson requested that the dog be buried at about midnight that night, -about the time that he expected to be carrying out the raid. The radio call sign for a successful strike was changed to the name of the dog.
The story was well aired and subsequently a stone was placed over the spot where the dog was buried giving the story and the included the Dogs name. In these recent "Enlightened" times the stone has been changed I believe, and also some references now have changed the name of the dog.
As I said I fully accept that some things today are unacceptable. But is it right to alter historical facts?
TF
For example - Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC who led the dams raid had a labrador dog which had a name which rightly would be unacceptable today. The dog was run over and killed a couple of hours before Gibson and 617 Squadron took off on the raid. Gibson requested that the dog be buried at about midnight that night, -about the time that he expected to be carrying out the raid. The radio call sign for a successful strike was changed to the name of the dog.
The story was well aired and subsequently a stone was placed over the spot where the dog was buried giving the story and the included the Dogs name. In these recent "Enlightened" times the stone has been changed I believe, and also some references now have changed the name of the dog.
As I said I fully accept that some things today are unacceptable. But is it right to alter historical facts?
TF
...airbrushing over history as if it never happened is just as bad as changing it. Just because something was acceptable before but is not now should not prevent it being discussed openly.
Guy Gibson's dog was called "Nigger" - FACT. Not acceptable in today's world but the fact is that was its name. Hanging kids for stealing a loaf of bread isn't acceptable today but it happened... do we airbrush that or any number of things so we get a sanitized and deceptive back story?
Nose art had its place, and still does. Just the content needs to reflect modern views.
Guy Gibson's dog was called "Nigger" - FACT. Not acceptable in today's world but the fact is that was its name. Hanging kids for stealing a loaf of bread isn't acceptable today but it happened... do we airbrush that or any number of things so we get a sanitized and deceptive back story?
Nose art had its place, and still does. Just the content needs to reflect modern views.
...airbrushing over history as if it never happened is just as bad as changing it. Just because something was acceptable before but is not now should not prevent it being discussed openly.
Guy Gibson's dog was called "Nigger" - FACT. Not acceptable in today's world but the fact is that was its name. Hanging kids for stealing a loaf of bread isn't acceptable today but it happened... do we airbrush that or any number of things so we get a sanitized and deceptive back story?
Nose art had its place, and still does. Just the content needs to reflect modern views.
Guy Gibson's dog was called "Nigger" - FACT. Not acceptable in today's world but the fact is that was its name. Hanging kids for stealing a loaf of bread isn't acceptable today but it happened... do we airbrush that or any number of things so we get a sanitized and deceptive back story?
Nose art had its place, and still does. Just the content needs to reflect modern views.
Absolutely. Slavery and everything that went with it is quite clearly totally unacceptable today.
However, we must not erase history. What has happened, has happened and we cannot change it.
Look at the situation in Bristol currently, huge issues with Edward Colston who made his fortune partly from the Slave Trade. Wrong by today’s standards obviously, but at least 2 schools in the City are there because of him. Both very good schools. Sadly one has bottled it and will change its name, as has Colston’s Hall - a music venue of some note. Ludicrous.
His money also contributed to many other elements of the City still in being today.
Edward Coltston’s statue in Bristol was toppled recently whilst the Police stood by and watched (a whole different subject), but that doesn’t change history or make any difference in the long run.
Having watched Roots as a youngster 40 years or so ago - and read the book - the history is tragic, but it IS history. We cannot change it.
TN.
However, we must not erase history. What has happened, has happened and we cannot change it.
Look at the situation in Bristol currently, huge issues with Edward Colston who made his fortune partly from the Slave Trade. Wrong by today’s standards obviously, but at least 2 schools in the City are there because of him. Both very good schools. Sadly one has bottled it and will change its name, as has Colston’s Hall - a music venue of some note. Ludicrous.
His money also contributed to many other elements of the City still in being today.
Edward Coltston’s statue in Bristol was toppled recently whilst the Police stood by and watched (a whole different subject), but that doesn’t change history or make any difference in the long run.
Having watched Roots as a youngster 40 years or so ago - and read the book - the history is tragic, but it IS history. We cannot change it.
TN.
He did defend it by pointing out that he wasn’t, but it referred to a letter he had received signed a Guardian Reader I believe.
Absolutely. Slavery and everything that went with it is quite clearly totally unacceptable today.
However, we must not erase history. What has happened, has happened and we cannot change it.
Look at the situation in Bristol currently, huge issues with Edward Colston who made his fortune partly from the Slave Trade. Wrong by today’s standards obviously, but at least 2 schools in the City are there because of him. Both very good schools. Sadly one has bottled it and will change its name, as has Colston’s Hall - a music venue of some note. Ludicrous.
His money also contributed to many other elements of the City still in being today.
Edward Coltston’s statue in Bristol was toppled recently whilst the Police stood by and watched (a whole different subject), but that doesn’t change history or make any difference in the long run.
Having watched Roots as a youngster 40 years or so ago - and read the book - the history is tragic, but it IS history. We cannot change it.
TN.
However, we must not erase history. What has happened, has happened and we cannot change it.
Look at the situation in Bristol currently, huge issues with Edward Colston who made his fortune partly from the Slave Trade. Wrong by today’s standards obviously, but at least 2 schools in the City are there because of him. Both very good schools. Sadly one has bottled it and will change its name, as has Colston’s Hall - a music venue of some note. Ludicrous.
His money also contributed to many other elements of the City still in being today.
Edward Coltston’s statue in Bristol was toppled recently whilst the Police stood by and watched (a whole different subject), but that doesn’t change history or make any difference in the long run.
Having watched Roots as a youngster 40 years or so ago - and read the book - the history is tragic, but it IS history. We cannot change it.
TN.
I thought it was a brilliant idea, totally out of the box.
https://www.dezeen.com/2020/06/11/ba...-slave-trader/
The thought police are out in force and they have big tech behind them. They have not YET decided that having a thought they disagree with is worthy of jail, but that will soon come.
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It isn't acceptable today to objectify women (or men) nor is it right to use racial stereotypes. But if we don't remember the lessons we have learned from the emancipation of those previously oppressed then what have we really learned?
Just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't be remembered - how else do we learn from our mistakes?
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If you think this "purge" is about nose art, I'm pretty sure you're wilfully missing the point.
I strongly suspect the US military are taking a stance against things like the QAnon b/s and all the paraphernalia associated with it. Obviously they cannot be specific, nor would they want to be. The UK military has taken a similar stance over proscribed organisations and displays relating to them in the past, but in 2020 its getting harder to do this and the authorities have to be necessarily more nuanced.
I think all this nose art discussion is completely irrelevant to the original post, as is all the clatter about "changing history". This is about keeping a cult the FBI have branded domestic terrorism out of public service. If you want to know how deeply this has ingrained itself in US society a few minutes work on Google/WiKi should waken up the audience.
