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USAF Badges purge

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USAF Badges purge

Old 9th Jan 2021, 01:03
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 3,778
Had to look that up Satco, glad I did, found their FB page, made an old mans day.

mopardave, next the PC lot will be demanding all those risque paintings by the old masters hanging in the art displays be taken down.
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 10:46
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Over the hills and far away
Posts: 74
Red face

Originally Posted by megan View Post
Had to look that up Satco, glad I did, found their FB page, made an old mans day.

mopardave, next the PC lot will be demanding all those risque paintings by the old masters hanging in the art displays be taken down.
Oh for gods sake, donít give them ideas.
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 16:04
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bristol
Posts: 389
I certainly don't have an issue with preventing nose art or comments that are unacceptable today. But I do feel uncomfortable with attempts to change History, - especially if that historical name or title was important at the time.

For example - Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC who led the dams raid had a labrador dog which had a name which rightly would be unacceptable today. The dog was run over and killed a couple of hours before Gibson and 617 Squadron took off on the raid. Gibson requested that the dog be buried at about midnight that night, -about the time that he expected to be carrying out the raid. The radio call sign for a successful strike was changed to the name of the dog.

The story was well aired and subsequently a stone was placed over the spot where the dog was buried giving the story and the included the Dogs name. In these recent "Enlightened" times the stone has been changed I believe, and also some references now have changed the name of the dog.

As I said I fully accept that some things today are unacceptable. But is it right to alter historical facts?

TF
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 17:40
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 910
...airbrushing over history as if it never happened is just as bad as changing it. Just because something was acceptable before but is not now should not prevent it being discussed openly.
Guy Gibson's dog was called "Nigger" - FACT. Not acceptable in today's world but the fact is that was its name. Hanging kids for stealing a loaf of bread isn't acceptable today but it happened... do we airbrush that or any number of things so we get a sanitized and deceptive back story?
Nose art had its place, and still does. Just the content needs to reflect modern views.
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 17:44
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where-ever nav's chooses....
Posts: 699
If you think this "purge" is about nose art, I'm pretty sure you're wilfully missing the point.
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 18:27
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: north of england
Age: 56
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
...airbrushing over history as if it never happened is just as bad as changing it. Just because something was acceptable before but is not now should not prevent it being discussed openly.
Guy Gibson's dog was called "Nigger" - FACT. Not acceptable in today's world but the fact is that was its name. Hanging kids for stealing a loaf of bread isn't acceptable today but it happened... do we airbrush that or any number of things so we get a sanitized and deceptive back story?
Nose art had its place, and still does. Just the content needs to reflect modern views.
Hammer, nail, head!
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 19:11
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Age: 57
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Originally Posted by mopardave View Post
Hammer, nail, head!
Absolutely. Slavery and everything that went with it is quite clearly totally unacceptable today.

However, we must not erase history. What has happened, has happened and we cannot change it.

Look at the situation in Bristol currently, huge issues with Edward Colston who made his fortune partly from the Slave Trade. Wrong by todayís standards obviously, but at least 2 schools in the City are there because of him. Both very good schools. Sadly one has bottled it and will change its name, as has Colstonís Hall - a music venue of some note. Ludicrous.

His money also contributed to many other elements of the City still in being today.

Edward Coltstonís statue in Bristol was toppled recently whilst the Police stood by and watched (a whole different subject), but that doesnít change history or make any difference in the long run.

Having watched Roots as a youngster 40 years or so ago - and read the book - the history is tragic, but it IS history. We cannot change it.

TN.
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 22:49
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
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Originally Posted by Party Animal View Post
The most distressing and disturbing nose art that I remember from GW1 was the Jag mate with ĎThe Guardian Readerí emblazoned on the nose!! Absolutely shocking!
He did defend it by pointing out that he wasnít, but it referred to a letter he had received signed a Guardian Reader I believe.
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 22:54
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
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Originally Posted by tarantonight View Post
Absolutely. Slavery and everything that went with it is quite clearly totally unacceptable today.

However, we must not erase history. What has happened, has happened and we cannot change it.

Look at the situation in Bristol currently, huge issues with Edward Colston who made his fortune partly from the Slave Trade. Wrong by today’s standards obviously, but at least 2 schools in the City are there because of him. Both very good schools. Sadly one has bottled it and will change its name, as has Colston’s Hall - a music venue of some note. Ludicrous.

His money also contributed to many other elements of the City still in being today.

Edward Coltston’s statue in Bristol was toppled recently whilst the Police stood by and watched (a whole different subject), but that doesn’t change history or make any difference in the long run.

Having watched Roots as a youngster 40 years or so ago - and read the book - the history is tragic, but it IS history. We cannot change it.

TN.
Banksy came up with a brilliant suggestion on how to appease those wanting the Edward Colston statue reinstalled and those not. He suggested remounting it at an angle and surrounded by cast figures with ropes around it in the process of toppling it. So those that want it reinstalling get their wish and those that don’t get a statue celebrating its toppling, a plaque would describe what was going on and why.

I thought it was a brilliant idea, totally out of the box.

https://www.dezeen.com/2020/06/11/ba...-slave-trader/
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 11:28
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Censorship - The assassination of Free Speech
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Iíd get a chuckle if a female aircraft commander had a scantily clad beefcake painted on the side of her aircraft. Seems like equality to me.

Sounds like you volunteering for a modelling job
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 11:44
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Censorship - The assassination of Free Speech
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by alfred_the_great View Post
If you think this "purge" is about nose art, I'm pretty sure you're wilfully missing the point.
True

The thought police are out in force and they have big tech behind them. They have not YET decided that having a thought they disagree with is worthy of jail, but that will soon come.

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Old 10th Jan 2021, 12:04
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 54
Posts: 816
Originally Posted by Party Animal View Post
The most distressing and disturbing nose art that I remember from GW1 was the Jag mate with ĎThe Guardian Readerí emblazoned on the nose!! Absolutely shocking!
That Jet was flown by two pilot's during the war. One is a famous artist in his own right and is on this forum and the other (now deceased) while OC No 6 Squadron wrote a letter to my CO thank me for something I did to support a Squadron Anniversary that got me a Spec Rec on the following appraisal and a long overdue promotion.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 19:49
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Too far South
Age: 47
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by ExAscoteer2 View Post
So that's alright then is it? Because it was done in the past we should not criticise?
It might not be all-right, but you cannot rewrite history to suit the change in attitudes of the times (eg the name of the mascot of 617Sqn) These things happened, they are history.

It isn't acceptable today to objectify women (or men) nor is it right to use racial stereotypes. But if we don't remember the lessons we have learned from the emancipation of those previously oppressed then what have we really learned?

Just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't be remembered - how else do we learn from our mistakes?
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 02:26
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,726
Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Sounds like you volunteering for a modelling job
One thing for sure, it would scare the hell out of the enemy not to mention the pilots and maintainers.
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Old 11th Jan 2021, 06:19
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 75
If you think this "purge" is about nose art, I'm pretty sure you're wilfully missing the point.
This. Although "wilfully" is only valid if some of the people posting here are aware (or want to be aware) of what is happening in the USA right now. I suspect "wilfully" is actually a back-handed compliment to some of the posters on this thread.

I strongly suspect the US military are taking a stance against things like the QAnon b/s and all the paraphernalia associated with it. Obviously they cannot be specific, nor would they want to be. The UK military has taken a similar stance over proscribed organisations and displays relating to them in the past, but in 2020 its getting harder to do this and the authorities have to be necessarily more nuanced.

I think all this nose art discussion is completely irrelevant to the original post, as is all the clatter about "changing history". This is about keeping a cult the FBI have branded domestic terrorism out of public service. If you want to know how deeply this has ingrained itself in US society a few minutes work on Google/WiKi should waken up the audience.
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