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The First UK Independent Defence Authority

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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 20:45
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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AOC should have something to say if not given the heads up. The issue is t​​​hat two senior officers allegedly covered up. Raising a minor procedural point must be intended to divert from that. Not the first time someone's had to make misconduct known on prune as they've got nowhere through official channels. The forum's got many threads. More to come?
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Old 3rd Dec 2020, 07:32
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Grahamhouse - why do you call the group an "Authority" - who appointed you?
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Old 3rd Dec 2020, 17:40
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[QUOTE=grahamhouse;10938778]Part of why this issue is so important if Defence wishes to be relevant....which I offer you here....

1 - When a CO...an allegation of rape perpetrated by a RAF Instructor on a 13 yr old girl when on summer camp on my base was reported to me. My Chain of Command (22Gp) directed me to not entertain the allegation nor initiate investigation (22Gp owned the Air Cadet organisation). The rationale of the CoC being that such an allegation would in itself adversely impact on the anniversary of the Cadet organisation which was imminent. There was then no military investigation despite the military having lead jurisdiction. Not content with this, I went to the civil police, there was an investigation, there was a due process and there was a conviction - the RAF Instructor went to prison.

Graham, I served for 12 years as a WEXO in the ATC/ACO/RAF Cadets (after 34 years in the Real Air Force - I think our paths crossed at Kinloss) and I don't believe for one minute that 22 Group would not take seriously an allegation of rape against a minor so as to avoid an adverse impact on ATC 75. Even if, for whatever reason, the allegation was not forwarded to HQAC (which I find highly unlikely) the responsibility for managing this issue rests with the Police with the reporting timeline being " Immediately to police and/or local authority; info through the chain of command to HQ RAFAC (SO3 Safeguarding (SO3 SG) - see ACP 4 (Safeguarding and Protecting Children). If the reporting timeline wasn't followed, then you as the CO must take a degree of responsibility, particularly as you had a Wg HQ on site at St Mawgan. Once the Police are involved the situation is completely outwith the control of HQAC/22 Gp, until such time the Police investigation has run its course and, in this case, only when the individual had been found guilty would 22 Group take the necessary admin action. The military did not have lead jurisdiction in this case.

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Old 4th Dec 2020, 20:47
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Patrob1237 I was thinking the same. The fact that “Not content with this, I went to the civil police” seems to indicate that the Civ Pol were not the first point of call, would this not be a serious error of judgement in itself? Whilst there is no legal responsibility to report a crime, in this case there would be a moral responsibility to ensure that the alleged perpetrator is questioned by the Civ Pol to ascertain whether they have grounds for suspicion that a crime has been committed.
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Old 4th Dec 2020, 21:40
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet
Patrob1237 I was thinking the same. The fact that “Not content with this, I went to the civil police” seems to indicate that the Civ Pol were not the first point of call, would this not be a serious error of judgement in itself? Whilst there is no legal responsibility to report a crime, in this case there would be a moral responsibility to ensure that the alleged perpetrator is questioned by the Civ Pol to ascertain whether they have grounds for suspicion that a crime has been committed.
Agreed LJ; “the service” didn’t make an error here, he made a personal error of judgement and to be honest I’d expect better from someone at that rank.
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Old 5th Dec 2020, 06:37
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Graham House You're DEFINITELY on to something when the usual trolls continue to ignore the main issue.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 10:06
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Why the IDA?

In my opinion, it has been a long time coming the formation of an Independent Defence Authority, it just needs to be formally recognised as a safe, go-to organisation for ALL members, past or present including the families of the Armed Forces.

How do I know this? Or support this organisation, because I am just one of many (and there are thousands more) who have 1st hand experience of In-justice within the Armed Forces.

My story in brief……I am the Widow of Capt. Dean Sprouting a dedicated soldier with 30yrs service who rose through the ranks from private to Captain. Just an average Joe before his untimely and avoidable death by the negligent & reckless actions of US servicemen in Iraq Jan 2018 (Fact - it’s all documented in SIB report, SI, US CID report and Inquest findings).

Despite ALL the evidence supporting that Dean’s death was preventable the MoD has failed to challenge the US, who investigated themselves, by themselves and exonerated themselves from any wrongdoings. Ministers and the MoD think it is acceptable that an experienced British soldier, serving his country, wearing a British uniform, following a UK Defence Mandate, supporting UK Defence on operations can have his life needlessly lost and devalued by the process and nothing happens in response, sadly this is the “norm”.

Instead, the MoD and the Minister DPV is failing to support or to protect our own from injustice within - just like the wider complaint piece. Hence this is why Justice for Troops, IDA and Centre for Military Justice formed to do the right thing and support not just my family but all of our British Military and their families from future injustice.

Those sceptical and you have every right, probably have not yet experienced injustice and long may that continue, but for those of you who have or will, there is now a place for you to voice your concerns, seek advice and support without retribution. A place where your career cannot and should not be affected, your pension safe and maybe an LS & GC thrown in for good measure!

There is no hidden agenda, no subscription fees, just open, honest and transparent help. I am an advocate for gaining the truth and if I did not believe that this is a major step in the right direction for ALL the military community regardless of rank, chosen occupation or branch you serve with, I would not affiliate myself with such causes.

Let’s ALL get behind this because injustice takes no prisoner’s, it knows no boundaries you are not immune, nor are you alone now! I just want justice for Dean and for those who sadly will walk in his footsteps.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 15:17
  #48 (permalink)  
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From my personal experiences, Veterans are missing a vital and important support mechanism. Politics aside, we all want the same thing, better support for those currently serving and Veterans alike?

The Office for Veteran Affairs(OVA) is driven by politics (Johnny Mercer MP), the Independent Defence Authority(IDA) will be driven by the very people who have experienced the 'system' first hand. It does not consume money, they do not pay those who work within. The rule-book is simply to use the regulations written by the MoD and to hold them to those very same high standards. A check-sum if you will....(These include the AFCS, War Pension scheme, Service Complaint Process and also the role of the MoD in setting rules, assessing performance and then reporting on it.)

The UK has over 1500+ charities who provide some type of support to our Veterans. They do amazing work, which should be applauded, recognised and rewarded.(The IDA will also provide the 'good news' from the MoD, as well as the bad.) My opinion, for what its worth...we have some amazing people, all sitting in the same space, trying as best they can to help those who need it; but their efforts can lead to duplication of effort, repetition and confusion for those who are seeking help. The IDA will act to measure, assess and report direct to Government on the ability of the systems already in-place to help the most vulnerable in our community. The 'glue' that binds our efforts, as well as being the conscience that holds our seniors to account. A virtuous circle of benefit to all. As the IDA starts to measure how the sector is functioning, it will naturally improve the services provided, in turn we save Defence money (in the highly stressed People area), resulting in overall better treatment for our People and more money for Equipment.

I think this is a streak of brilliance from Graham House, a vision that once established, will transform the 'lot' for those who serve and those who need help after leaving the military. In a way, I am glad that some are sceptics, that means that they care about this subject, they are willing to give their opinion, they are exactly the type of people the IDA needs to drive forward change. Who are the IDA, they already include 18yo Phase 1 recruits up to 4* level and cross-party MP support. Plus 100's of others who provide the narrative for change...
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 00:12
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Originally Posted by BMe
From my personal experiences, Veterans are missing a vital and important support mechanism. Politics aside, we all want the same thing, better support for those currently serving and Veterans alike?

The Office for Veteran Affairs(OVA) is driven by politics (Johnny Mercer MP), the Independent Defence Authority(IDA) will be driven by the very people who have experienced the 'system' first hand. It does not consume money, they do not pay those who work within. The rule-book is simply to use the regulations written by the MoD and to hold them to those very same high standards. A check-sum if you will....(These include the AFCS, War Pension scheme, Service Complaint Process and also the role of the MoD in setting rules, assessing performance and then reporting on it.)

The UK has over 1500+ charities who provide some type of support to our Veterans. They do amazing work, which should be applauded, recognised and rewarded.(The IDA will also provide the 'good news' from the MoD, as well as the bad.) My opinion, for what its worth...we have some amazing people, all sitting in the same space, trying as best they can to help those who need it; but their efforts can lead to duplication of effort, repetition and confusion for those who are seeking help. The IDA will act to measure, assess and report direct to Government on the ability of the systems already in-place to help the most vulnerable in our community. The 'glue' that binds our efforts, as well as being the conscience that holds our seniors to account. A virtuous circle of benefit to all. As the IDA starts to measure how the sector is functioning, it will naturally improve the services provided, in turn we save Defence money (in the highly stressed People area), resulting in overall better treatment for our People and more money for Equipment.

I think this is a streak of brilliance from Graham House, a vision that once established, will transform the 'lot' for those who serve and those who need help after leaving the military. In a way, I am glad that some are sceptics, that means that they care about this subject, they are willing to give their opinion, they are exactly the type of people the IDA needs to drive forward change. Who are the IDA, they already include 18yo Phase 1 recruits up to 4* level and cross-party MP support. Plus 100's of others who provide the narrative for change...
This new "authority" has no mandate, no legal basis and no authority. This reeks of people who have an axe to grind and/or can see a quick buck down the line.

Having well meaning people getting involved in matters that dont concern them often ends in more harm than good.

I am currently serving, I have had injustices and gripes, but I would never try and get a toothless tiger to advocate for me. This is how things get laughed out and ridiculed for lack of credibility.

Let us all know what your verifiable success rate is for any cases you take on....
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 07:31
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"This new "authority" has no mandate, no legal basis and no authority. This reeks of people who have an axe to grind and/or can see a quick buck down the line."

Well said - there is a real lack of any information about who decided to award themselves this title, how they're organised and which lawyers will make a fortune out of it
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 14:43
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Sprouts72, thank you for your post here and for the no little courage it required when faced with the default hostility as above to the IDA. It has been a feature of so many fatal accident threads on this forum that NoK; be they wives, siblings, parents, or the children of the deceased, are prepared to speak out in the hope that others might be spared the anguish they have suffered. Their stories all have one thing in common, the glaring omission of the Duty of Care that those in the High Command of HM Forces owe to those that they lead.

One other feature is common too, that posts from NoK (such as yours) are studiously ignored by the MOD's apologists, who prefer ad hominem attacks against those who dare to question their version of events. No doubt this post will be no exception. As to the IDA's name, it can call itself what it may, a rose by any other name if you will. It will have a hard fight on its hands though. The vested interests of the Star Chamber has succeeded in maintaining a cover up of VSO Gross Negligence for over 30 years. The result has been the compromising of UK Military Airworthiness and Air Accident Investigation ever since. Only the total reform of Military Air Regulation and Air Accident Investigation can begin to turn that around.

Only the total reform of the MOD itself can begin to make the need for an IDA redundant, an outcome I feel sure it yearns for.
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 16:43
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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"Graham House You're DEFINITELY on to something when the usual trolls continue to ignore the main issue".

dervish - check it out, I've accumulated 8 post on PPRuNe, which hardly places me in the category of "usual troll". I was merely pointing out that, given my experience of ATC Safeguarding procedures, Graham House walked into the custard pie that he himself was holding.
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 20:22
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IDA appears to equal ambulance chasing activism, in my humble opinion. Not for me thanks. I want something with an agreed mandate and actual authority.
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Old 10th Dec 2020, 23:05
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Originally Posted by Corporal Clott
IDA appears to equal ambulance chasing activism, in my humble opinion. Not for me thanks. I want something with an agreed mandate and actual authority.
Agreed. This really looks like a legal firm that sees £££.

I agree an organisation that does what has been suggested is a good thing, but it has to be official, recognised and with a legal mandate.
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 08:59
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If they'd called themselves something like "the Ex-Servicemen's action group for legal redress" or something I wouldn't complain - it would be clear who they were, what they wanted and how they were formed .

It's the the ludicrous title and claims to "independence", "Authority" etc which are clearly designed to confuse the general public and the media that worries me
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 17:40
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
If they'd called themselves something like "the Ex-Servicemen's action group for legal redress" or something I wouldn't complain - it would be clear who they were, what they wanted and how they were formed .

It's the the ludicrous title and claims to "independence", "Authority" etc which are clearly designed to confuse the general public and the media that worries me
it is deliberately deceptive.
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 14:00
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Originally Posted by morganmcl99
I’ve been watching this thread since 8th December. I appreciate anything about the armed forces will be a sensitive subject as it is like a family for everyone that serves and veterans. To introduce myself I am 21 years old, bi-sexual and was discharged from British Army training at the Infantry Training Centre Catterick in September this year. I was discharged after first being blatantly denied any opportunity to see a doctor or welfare staff about my suicidal thoughts. The Army doctor discharged me as “stress due to work” and insisted that my case was “not mental health” - he missed a depression diagnosis that my civi GP diagnosed. At Catterick I wanted to end my own life by jumping off the accommodation block staircase...as I felt isolated, trapped and useless. My discharge reason was overruled by the MOD’s civi occupational health team who changed my discharge code to mental health. What the Army cannot say is that I’m ‘a mad case’ as the Army doctor denied the fact that I was experiencing mental health issues as he didn’t wish to further inflate the Army’s mental health statistics. The statistics for mental health across the armed forces from a recent FOI request can be found in my article.

Recruits from my Catterick training intake approached me after I was discharged, saying they experienced homophobic remarks made by the corporals at ITC Catterick as well as assault and serious welfare issues. One recruit was physically assaulted and pinned up against a wall by his throat any one of the corporals. Another corporal slapped a recruit. Another corporal threatened to kill a recruit. A recruit previously banned by the Army for assault also brought a knife to Catterick training and tried to start a fight on a younger recruit. The training staff and PTI’s deliberately forced recruits to continue training hobbling on with injuries such as shin splints and a broken ankle (the relevance to this is in my article, reference Justine during RAF training as well). Recruits who were meant to self-isolate due to Covid-19 did not, with potentially infected recruits sitting next to each other eating breakfast.

The Army Sgt Major confirmed this is not part of the training programme. He said he would investigate the concerns I highlighted but failed to do so. The Sergeant Major in charge of training and Sgt Major from Army Home Command HQ in Aldershot met me in September and promised to resolve the issues highlighted. They have since cleared the corporal who denied me mental health support) of any wrongdoing, saying no action will be taken and lied to the MOD about a Covid-19 outbreak. In terms of this Covid outbreak in September I have at least 2 independent eye witnesses from 2 different training platoons.

Living in a garrison town and with RAF Odiham just down the road, as well as the Navy in Portsmouth being just an hours drive away, I am surrounded by military personnel. I engage with military troops and officers from across the Army, Navy and RAF. An Army warrant officer praised me last week in a private chat for my social media work in raising awareness about mental health, suicide and other issues surrounding the armed forces.

Recently I published an article featuring the stories of serving personnel and veterans who have faced injustices, these are not isolated examples. Tomorrow I am having a phone call chat with an RAF airman who experienced sexual harassment and bullying from fellow recruits and was removed from the training environment instead of the recruit who he had complained about. The snitch and blame culture made his complaint worse for him, with further bullying.

In my role as the LGBT+ ambassador for the Independent Defence Authority I have spent countless hours talking to Graham about his time as a CO, talking about my own experience after being denied mental health support by the Army training staff at ITC Catterick, and offering my time voluntarily for anyone who wishes to chat. This is unpaid and something that I wish to do to give something back, to support people and make a positive difference. Graham and the people that do great work. No one advised me when writing this. I wanted to set the record straight.

I get to speak with many inspirational and brave people by phone, email and in person; including a Navy veteran discharged with a brain injury. As well as an Army soldier based in Aldershot who was suing the MOD for being denied welfare support for severe anxiety and PTSD after coming back from tours in Iraq and Afghan.

To go back to another point you made and as much as I appreciate your own opinion, I would politely disagree - these matters do concern me, all other veterans and all serving troops from
Army, Navy and RAF. Of all genders, races, sexualities etc. Because these ultimately affect operational effectiveness, morale, recruitment and retention.

Do I feel aggrieved, angry or upset about the treatment by the Army and the lack of response from the MOD? No I do not. I signed up to join the Army for the pride in serving my country and make a positive difference to the world. But if it’s one thing I do in my life is that I want to use my negative experiences and help drive positive change to the way the military and companies view mental health and depression. I found talking to a football player that I refereed great help, him reassuring me that things to get better as he was on the same anti-depressant tablets.

This Christmas please look after yourselves and your loved ones - family and friends. Because they might be here today but gone tomorrow. Even when surrounded by family the feelings and emotions that go through our heads are unknown to even our family. Be it due to Covid-19, depression/suicide and mental health or heart attack etc. I am hugely thankful to the police for saving my life as otherwise I could have been six foot under by now.

#

Have a good weekend,
Morgan McLellan
If anyone wants a chat feel free to reach out@morganmcl99 on Twitter
Morgan,

i hope you are doing well and I hope that your life is slightly better now you have left. You did not deserve the treatment you received, nobody does!

As tragic as your circumstances were, having this made up authority representing you will not change anything, in fact it could have made your circumstances worse.

I will aggressively fight against bullying, discrimination and bigotry, but an authority... well, cant be without a mandate and official recognition. They have as much sway as having your mate represent you or a not from your mum.

The danger is this group acting in a way that portrays they have authority and a mandate when in actuality they don't and are a toothless tiger.
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 07:49
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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I find the attacks on the IDA solely on the basis of the name it has chosen for itself somewhat ironic. The campaign to reform UK Military Air Regulation and Accident Investigation (and no, that isn't a title, merely a description) has shown that many UK Institutions that abound in mandates and authority have serially reneged on both, be they Police Services, Provost Marshals, HSE, MAA, MOD, MPs, etc. They all agree that rocking the boat is against their shared mutual benefit. If the IDA is out to rock that boat then more power to its elbow say I. Better to have no mandate, other than what it invests in itself, than to betray those to whom one has a duty of care.

Titles and awards have become a feature of all that is wrong today, rather than an indication of excellence and professionalism. If the IDA stands for anything it is as a reaction to the failure of leadership of those who indeed do have such mandate and authority. It is they who should face just criticism, not those who seek to make amends for that lack of leadership.
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 08:20
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Well said Chugalug.

"toothless tiger"? What about the pussies who are meant to be preventing these issues?
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 16:03
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Chugalug2 - many of us below the Air Ranks don’t share your point of view either when it comes to your personal crusade against the military airworthiness systems and the many good people that work within them. Sorry.
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