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USMC Mid-Air - F-35/KC-130

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USMC Mid-Air - F-35/KC-130

Old 30th Sep 2020, 23:11
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
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I listened to the audio on the link provided by Green Flash. My experience with LA centre is that they are great but the last request by the controller was a bit off. "Can I give you the number for LA centre so you can call them on the ground?" Are you kidding? He's down to 2 engines and isn't sure about a fire. Leave him alone. My 2 cents.

I haven't flown a Herc but I have flown an Orion with virtually the same engines. Flying with 2 out on the same side is very possible. We practised it at least once per quarter (with Standards pilots only) to both a GA from Land (Full) flap and then next circuit to the touchdown. Those were pilot training weights (much lighter) but we would do it in the sim as well with a full bag of fuel. Not sure about the Herc but obviously it worked out.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 02:13
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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As we can't hear Raider 50 I am speculating that the controller knows the situation better than most and would like a call on the ground to confirm all is well.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 02:20
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mijbil View Post
I listened to the audio on the link provided by Green Flash. My experience with LA centre is that they are great but the last request by the controller was a bit off. "Can I give you the number for LA centre so you can call them on the ground?" Are you kidding? He's down to 2 engines and isn't sure about a fire. Leave him alone. My 2 cents..
Actually, it does make sense. In one of the recordings you can hear (the ATC side anyway), that there is solid two-way communications most of the way down, so the crew had obviously had spare capacity to deal with ATC, as well as fly down. They might not be able to contact ATC on the radio once on the ground, either due loss of signal, or aircraft damage prohibiting its use, and so a phone number would allow the crew to contact ATC and apprise them of their status once on the ground, to allow for further assistance to be dispatched as needed.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 02:41
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Can a Herc fly on one Engine
Yes, at very light weight, at least that's what a couple of drivers tell me.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 06:24
  #45 (permalink)  
fdr
 
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being able to fly on one or two when in one piece is one thing; flying around with bits hanging in the breeze is another. After the F35B got rudely outmaneuvered by the frisky herk, all bets are off. Good job to be able to use the people again.

VMCA2 would have been increased considerably...

stuff happens.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 07:11
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Why wouldn't you use the international call of MAYDAY instead of saying you are declaring an emergency? It gets everyone's attention and there is no confusion that you are in a serious situation.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 08:15
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Now that we know everyone got out safely, is it too early to ask if the Herc crew can claim the first verified air-to-air F35 kill?



JAS
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 08:16
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Mayday and Pan

I have noticed a reticence in N America to use either word. I never worked out why.

BV
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 09:41
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I was on freq when the then Lt Col Goldfein (just retired as Chief of Staff) was shot down in his F16CJ during the Kosovo thing. He declared that he'd been hit, had lost his engine and was gliding. The USAF controller promptly asked if he was declaring an emergency. One of his wingmen simply announced he had ejected but I don't remember anyone using MAYDAY or actually 'declaring an emergency'. However, I do remember following 'Bammer' and 'Jammer' when one called 'come up 12345'. Sure enough, they were on 123.45 and talking in clear with coordinates etc. A Beadwindow call had no effect. The length of transmissions were probably enough for a home-on-jam missile to have had a realistic chance of success. Great CSAR though!

Sorry, minor thread drift. BV is right, they need to use the words which attract attention everywhere else in the world.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 11:32
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mijbil View Post
I listened to the audio on the link provided by Green Flash. My experience with LA centre is that they are great but the last request by the controller was a bit off. "Can I give you the number for LA centre so you can call them on the ground?" Are you kidding? He's down to 2 engines and isn't sure about a fire. Leave him alone. My 2 cents.
.
Absolutely agree. The word MAYDAY immediately informs everyone on freq that an aircraft is in an emergency situation and to shut up unless being directly able to assist. Giving out phone numbers isn't! A direct result of MAYDAY not being used?

Remember flying from Changi to HK with Vietnam in full chat off the left wing tip. Our Violet Picture indicator (localiser type gauge monitoring Guard freq) was welded to the LH stop. If you listened in, it was being used as a chat freq! Not impressed.

As others have said, feather in their cap for the Herc pilot (though no doubt even now someone is lining him/her up for a black eye!)
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 12:08
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sycamore View Post
Going to require a lot of explaining how the tanker got clobbered from the front.....
I would not assume it got clobbered from the front. Too much overtake by an F-35 coming in for refueling, or getting too close while on the hose could have the F-35 coming in from behind and hitting the pod/engines on the KC-130.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 12:36
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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The occupational hazard of being a tanker is the possibility of being indecently assaulted from behind by the R/X a/c. Never happened to me but have had a couple of 'interesting' situations that could have ended differently. A tendency for the RX a/c to rush things ,miss the basket and then chase it usually results in these close calls. Not suggesting that was the case here but no doubt the USMC will find out in due course.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 12:49
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Besides the MAYDAY/PAN thing, another difference I have noted between the US and other nations is the stage at which tanker crews issue the clearance astern. The old and bold AAR mafia on here will be gratified to know that European tanker crews are still uniformly rigorous in waiting for joiners to be stabilised in the echelon position before issuing clearance astern. US tanker crews, not so much... my personal record (set within the last couple of years) is being cleared astern a KC-135 on first radio contact at 70 miles, with the crew seeming surprised when I asked whether I could join through echelon instead. Time and the investigation will tell whether the custom may have contributed in this case (noting the greater risk of misjudging closure on the slow KC-130) but regardless, itís a cheese-hole that should be closed.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 13:13
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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However the collision occured,if it had been an older -130 ,with metal blades ,i doubt it would have turned out as it did,as the blades have broken cleanly,and the engines are on the wing....
It would be interesting to see the stbd side of the aircraft...
Don`t think it would have been able to get a 2-engine stabilising height in Californian temperatures,unless he was below about 110k AUW,(C-130K ODM),so it was well flown after the collision.....
Just change the engines,drop the gear,rough field t/o.....away we go.....
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 13:26
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Why wouldn't you use the international call of MAYDAY instead of saying you are declaring an emergency? It gets everyone's attention and there is no confusion that you are in a serious situation.
I suspect it's good old "not invented here", like insisting on using inHg instead of those cissy cheese-eating hPa.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 13:48
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OldLurker View Post
I suspect it's good old "not invented here", like insisting on using inHg instead of those cissy cheese-eating hPa.
Don't remind me OL. HP had to call for power to the engineer on approach in a Hastings. No problem, you soon got used to "-2, -4, -6, -4", and back to the first number you thought of. Then some suit decided that all UK mil boost gauges be changed from lbs to "Hg. Now you had to convert what you wanted, eg -4, double it, take the result away from 32, and then call for 24, etc. Nice steady 3 degree slopes suddenly turned into diverging sinusoidal excursions until we all learnt the new numbers by heart. Great for STANAG though!
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 14:23
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Easy,thought everyone had/used the same `hymn sheet`,ATP-...??
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 14:50
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Out of interest and having a vague recollection that UK modified C130 tankers had to deliver fuel in a shallow dive due to differences in stall speeds of tanker and receiver, is there a narrow margin where the receiver overtaking the tanker is a possibility?
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 15:17
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Gliding Bronze Badge for Herc Pilot

Hopefully the local glider community can arrange a presentation for his first out landing​​​​​
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 16:21
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Dipsticks

Can't get any better than the fuel dipsticks on the iron duck measuring inches of kerosene.
"here John I'd like forty seven and three quarters please and keep the greenshield stamps".
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