New Flying Badges
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Got My A2 after many long hard years.Hard won wings. Wish they didnt keep changing the rules. But out of uniform, and not wearing a flying jacket and or a flying suit in civy flying, its of no use any way. Plus I found in BGA gliding you got the piss taken out of you behind your back. (Wearing wings.)
Join Date: May 2000
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oh to have the time....
Can someone clarify/confirm that this is a thread 140 posts long about a badge?
I hope, as a taxpayer, I am not paying to train Badge Specialists. Is there a badge for a, well, 'Badge Specialist' award? (BSa)
Thanks.
I hope, as a taxpayer, I am not paying to train Badge Specialists. Is there a badge for a, well, 'Badge Specialist' award? (BSa)
Thanks.
Thank god I never mentioned Cabin Crew......................
No, you are not
No
Glad to help!
Jack
And harking back to the fighter controller, lurking in his bunker, acting as the 3rd pair of eyes for an F3...he didn't need a flying badge. All part of the ground trade: getting weapons to target remotely while the aircrew followed his cues. How is a ground-based RPAS operator different to an FC?
As you can operate a Typhoon or any aircraft you care to look at, I'm sure you can tell us!😂
Vortex Hoop
"How is a ground-based RPAS operator different to an FC?"
They are flying the aircraft and and are the aircraft captain.
I would suggest that is a huge difference.
"How is a ground-based RPAS operator different to an FC?"
They are flying the aircraft and and are the aircraft captain.
I would suggest that is a huge difference.
But neither are aboard yet both are key for ops. Sounds pretty similar to me. And where do the LRE fit into this? Are they the true captains as they do SUTTO and landing?
Aircraft Captain is aircraft Captain, full stop. The take off and landing folk are obviously key, as are numerous other folk. But you have only one Captain.
Gentleman Aviator
Aircraft Captain is aircraft Captain, full stop. The take off and landing folk are obviously key, as are numerous other folk. But you have only one Captain.
So being captain does not necessarily have anything to do with flying the aircraft???
Join Date: May 2000
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Not Aircrew
Its sadly a matter of time before somebody hands the CC trade an Honorary Aircrew Flying badge though- NO OASC , NO NCAITC, No flying training. Like you said previously- you're not aircrew unless you've passed at least 'Officer and AIRCREW Selection Centre' course.
But give it 1-2 years or less, they'll be wearing the flying badge without the need to change the QR's to reflect or MAA RA's. They'd have circumvented the whole lot and the Trade advisors at HW would have handed them the Flying badge (without the aircrew prerequisites ) on a plate.
I hope i'm wrong Heights Good- but the cynic in me says the people who want to defend the standard of aircrew and Flying Badges are powerless to stop it. Maybe Aircrew could go and buy the CC wings and wear them without the prerequisites of a trade badge? at least it has TWO wings instead of only one
Watch this space - Chugalug will be overjoyed, he'll be straight back with pictures. Even if the MAA RA's don't support his argument.
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Its sadly a matter of time before somebody hands the CC trade an Honorary Aircrew Flying badge though- NO OASC , NO NCAITC, No flying training. Like you said previously- you're not aircrew unless you've passed at least 'Officer and AIRCREW Selection Centre' course.
But give it 1-2 years or less, they'll be wearing the flying badge without the need to change the QR's to reflect or MAA RA's. They'd have circumvented the whole lot and the Trade advisors at HW would have handed them the Flying badge (without the aircrew prerequisites ) on a plate.
I hope i'm wrong Heights Good- but the cynic in me says the people who want to defend the standard of aircrew and Flying Badges are powerless to stop it. Maybe Aircrew could go and buy the CC wings and wear them without the prerequisites of a trade badge? at least it has TWO wings instead of only one
Watch this space - Chugalug will be overjoyed, he'll be straight back with pictures. Even if the MAA RA's don't support his argument.
But give it 1-2 years or less, they'll be wearing the flying badge without the need to change the QR's to reflect or MAA RA's. They'd have circumvented the whole lot and the Trade advisors at HW would have handed them the Flying badge (without the aircrew prerequisites ) on a plate.
I hope i'm wrong Heights Good- but the cynic in me says the people who want to defend the standard of aircrew and Flying Badges are powerless to stop it. Maybe Aircrew could go and buy the CC wings and wear them without the prerequisites of a trade badge? at least it has TWO wings instead of only one
Watch this space - Chugalug will be overjoyed, he'll be straight back with pictures. Even if the MAA RA's don't support his argument.
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ATG, Welcome to the fray! You have researched the issue most assiduously and I commend your effort but must sadly, though perhaps predictably, politely disagree with your conclusions. The difference between aircrew and supernumerary crew is that the former is required to operate the aircraft normally, to include CC with passengers (or without CC if just Freight/Empty/AAR), whereas supernumerary crew are not. Thus PJIs are required to drop Paras but are not required simply to fly them (and yes, I know they are Honorary Aircrew anyway). Ditto Despatch Crews for Supply Dropping. Just positioning the kit they aren't needed but to drop it they are. Ditto Gnd Engs for down route support etc.
Of course RAF CC are not said to be Aircrew, I know that and it is what most of this thread has occupied itself with. I still insist though that they are Aircrew by definition (and thank you for the link!) :-
Ipso Facto as Anthony Hancock might say!
Of course RAF CC are not said to be Aircrew, I know that and it is what most of this thread has occupied itself with. I still insist though that they are Aircrew by definition (and thank you for the link!) :-
Ipso Facto as Anthony Hancock might say!
For Clarity chugalug: So your cut off link witht he rest of the RA missing is genuinely intersting, that youve omitted the facts in the RA that doesnt support your argument. Ive provided you witht th two relevant RA's that.RA2340
a. Aircrew. Persons authorized to conduct duties concerned with: operating or flying the Air System or; with the management of Passengers or cargo when in flight; and who are also qualified in accordance with (iaw) RA 21011.
b. Supernumerary Crew. A Supernumerary Crewmember is an individual, military or civilian, who is employed on an Air System and authorized to carry out a specific duty (that does not require an Aircrew qualification) while in flight or ground taxiing. This specific duty is to have an active role in achieving the purpose of the authorized flight and may involve the operation of Air System equipment/systems or authorized Equipment Not Basic to the Air System (ENBAS)2 under the supervision of the Air System’s Aircrew.
RA2101 (1)
Entitlement to Conduct Flying Duties
2101(1) To fly or operate ►Air Systems governed by the MRP,◄ Aircrew shall be qualified.
Entitlement to Conduct Flying Duties
1. Aviation Duty Holders (ADH) and Accountable Managers (Military Flying) (AM(MF)) should promulgate in orders the criteria for the award, or recognition of Aircrew qualifications.
2. UK Military Registered Air Systems. In order to fly or operate UK military registered Air Systems, Aircrew should be qualified in accordance with (iaw) at least one of the following criteria:
a. ►They are◄ in possession of, or ►have◄ previously been awarded, ►one of the following◄:
(1) The appropriate UK military flying badge►1◄;
(2) A UK military or AM(MF) approved Remotely Piloted Air System
(RPAS) pilot/operator qualification;
(3) A UK military or AM(MF) approved non-Pilot Aircrew qualification. b. ►They are◄ undergoing an ADH or AM(MF) approved training course
and the duties to be authorized form part of ►the◄ course of training; c. ►They are◄ part of a recognized foreign exchange programme
approved by single-Service chiefs;
d. ►They possess the◄ appropriate civil licence; ►◄
e. ►They are in possession of, or have previously been awarded, a foreign
military qualification that has been approved as equivalent by the ADH or AM(MF).◄
By the fact they do not possess a flying badge (YET- they will get one, as the new flying badge especially mission specialist published above will be gifted to CC in due course according to other offical forums).
So for NOW- the highlighted RA's state they are supernumary crew and not aircrew. The Regulator is pretty clear I would say.
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I can feel the demise / amalgamation of the WSOp Cadre quite soon, starting with the award of our Flying Badge to ground based trades. (or handing them a Flying Badge minus a crown).. its a matter of time before you have MAMS doing ALM jobs and CC doing MSO jobs. not sure whod muscle in on the RW Cmn role though... hookers? /TSW?
>> Coastguard are recruiting, if that floats your boat?
Does this apply to Ground Engineers /Crew Chiefs (i.e. those who fly with the aircraft) - a 'flying spanner' badge with r without a crown (substitute a nut/ bolt/ or wiggly amp thingy?
Who actually needs to have their ego polished by the award of a badge?
Who actually needs to have their ego polished by the award of a badge?