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New Flying Badges

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New Flying Badges

Old 3rd May 2020, 16:26
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Couldn't agree more. Need to concentrate on the important stuff rater than more bureaucracy.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 18:39
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiltshireman View Post
Couldn't agree more. Need to concentrate on the important stuff rater than more bureaucracy.
In the great scheme of things, who does or doesn't get a badge..........

CG
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Old 3rd May 2020, 20:32
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Merseyside
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Got My A2 after many long hard years.Hard won wings. Wish they didnt keep changing the rules. But out of uniform, and not wearing a flying jacket and or a flying suit in civy flying, its of no use any way. Plus I found in BGA gliding you got the piss taken out of you behind your back. (Wearing wings.)
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Old 3rd May 2020, 23:59
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
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oh to have the time....

Can someone clarify/confirm that this is a thread 140 posts long about a badge?
I hope, as a taxpayer, I am not paying to train Badge Specialists. Is there a badge for a, well, 'Badge Specialist' award? (BSa)

Thanks.


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Old 4th May 2020, 07:52
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
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I always thought there was only one "Flying badge", all the others were brevets.

Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.
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Old 4th May 2020, 07:58
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Originally Posted by Busta View Post
Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.
+1

Ten characters
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Old 4th May 2020, 11:07
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Originally Posted by ifylofd View Post
Can someone clarify/confirm that this is a thread 140 posts long about a badge?
I hope, as a taxpayer, I am not paying to train Badge Specialists. Is there a badge for a, well, 'Badge Specialist' award? (BSa)

Thanks.
Careful - I was sentenced to be shot at dawn about 100 posts ago for suggesting they were "fripperies"

Thank god I never mentioned Cabin Crew......................
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Old 4th May 2020, 11:14
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by ifylofd View Post
Can someone clarify/confirm that this is a thread 140 posts long about a badge?
.
Yes
Originally Posted by ifylofd View Post
I hope, as a taxpayer, I am not paying to train Badge Specialists.

No, you are not
Originally Posted by ifylofd View Post
Is there a badge for a, well, 'Badge Specialist' award? (BSa)
No
Originally Posted by ifylofd View Post

Thanks.
Glad to help!

Jack
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Old 4th May 2020, 11:27
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
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Originally Posted by heights good View Post
Not correct I am afraid. You may have been out of the military flying game too long.

A role fit is something that is fitted or used for a specific role i.e. Aeromed, Para, pax, Airdrop, gunnery etc.

ALL aircraft need pilots to fly them REGARDLESS of the role
Two thoughts come to mind. Does this mean that RPAS operators are not really aircrew as they are not on board their aircraft? Are they lower than airborne CC in the pecking order?

And harking back to the fighter controller, lurking in his bunker, acting as the 3rd pair of eyes for an F3...he didn't need a flying badge. All part of the ground trade: getting weapons to target remotely while the aircrew followed his cues. How is a ground-based RPAS operator different to an FC?

As you can operate a Typhoon or any aircraft you care to look at, I'm sure you can tell us!😂
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Old 4th May 2020, 11:31
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Vortex Hoop

"How is a ground-based RPAS operator different to an FC?"


They are flying the aircraft and and are the aircraft captain.

I would suggest that is a huge difference.
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Old 4th May 2020, 11:51
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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But neither are aboard yet both are key for ops. Sounds pretty similar to me. And where do the LRE fit into this? Are they the true captains as they do SUTTO and landing?
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Old 4th May 2020, 11:55
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Aircraft Captain is aircraft Captain, full stop. The take off and landing folk are obviously key, as are numerous other folk. But you have only one Captain.
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Old 4th May 2020, 12:16
  #153 (permalink)  

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My brain hurts!!
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Old 4th May 2020, 12:42
  #154 (permalink)  

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Aircraft Captain is aircraft Captain, full stop. The take off and landing folk are obviously key, as are numerous other folk. But you have only one Captain.
I have to agree. ISTR the Maritime world had a number of Nav captains, and even - correct me if I'm wrong - AEO captains (there was at least one AEO Sqn Cdr).

So being captain does not necessarily have anything to do with flying the aircraft???
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Old 4th May 2020, 13:41
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
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Originally Posted by Union Jack View Post
Yes

No, you are not


No


Glad to help!

Jack
Thanks for your help JackO.
Appears there are a few here who qualify for the BSa.



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Old 15th Jun 2020, 00:40
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: middle earth
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Talking Not Aircrew

Originally Posted by heights good View Post
Awkward....

I guess that is that argument put to bed....

if Carlsberg did Aviation Authorities, for everyone else there is "aircrew recruitment link"


Its sadly a matter of time before somebody hands the CC trade an Honorary Aircrew Flying badge though- NO OASC , NO NCAITC, No flying training. Like you said previously- you're not aircrew unless you've passed at least 'Officer and AIRCREW Selection Centre' course.

But give it 1-2 years or less, they'll be wearing the flying badge without the need to change the QR's to reflect or MAA RA's. They'd have circumvented the whole lot and the Trade advisors at HW would have handed them the Flying badge (without the aircrew prerequisites ) on a plate.


I hope i'm wrong Heights Good- but the cynic in me says the people who want to defend the standard of aircrew and Flying Badges are powerless to stop it. Maybe Aircrew could go and buy the CC wings and wear them without the prerequisites of a trade badge? at least it has TWO wings instead of only one

Watch this space - Chugalug will be overjoyed, he'll be straight back with pictures. Even if the MAA RA's don't support his argument.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 01:10
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by KBW10101 View Post
Its sadly a matter of time before somebody hands the CC trade an Honorary Aircrew Flying badge though- NO OASC , NO NCAITC, No flying training. Like you said previously- you're not aircrew unless you've passed at least 'Officer and AIRCREW Selection Centre' course.

But give it 1-2 years or less, they'll be wearing the flying badge without the need to change the QR's to reflect or MAA RA's. They'd have circumvented the whole lot and the Trade advisors at HW would have handed them the Flying badge (without the aircrew prerequisites ) on a plate.


I hope i'm wrong Heights Good- but the cynic in me says the people who want to defend the standard of aircrew and Flying Badges are powerless to stop it. Maybe Aircrew could go and buy the CC wings and wear them without the prerequisites of a trade badge? at least it has TWO wings instead of only one

Watch this space - Chugalug will be overjoyed, he'll be straight back with pictures. Even if the MAA RA's don't support his argument.
Perhaps....I will be very much a mister by that point and too civilian to care 😀
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 08:42
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Originally Posted by Chugalug2 View Post
ATG, Welcome to the fray! You have researched the issue most assiduously and I commend your effort but must sadly, though perhaps predictably, politely disagree with your conclusions. The difference between aircrew and supernumerary crew is that the former is required to operate the aircraft normally, to include CC with passengers (or without CC if just Freight/Empty/AAR), whereas supernumerary crew are not. Thus PJIs are required to drop Paras but are not required simply to fly them (and yes, I know they are Honorary Aircrew anyway). Ditto Despatch Crews for Supply Dropping. Just positioning the kit they aren't needed but to drop it they are. Ditto Gnd Engs for down route support etc.

Of course RAF CC are not said to be Aircrew, I know that and it is what most of this thread has occupied itself with. I still insist though that they are Aircrew by definition (and thank you for the link!) :-



Ipso Facto as Anthony Hancock might say!

For Clarity chugalug: So your cut off link witht he rest of the RA missing is genuinely intersting, that youve omitted the facts in the RA that doesnt support your argument. Ive provided you witht th two relevant RA's that.RA2340

a. Aircrew. Persons authorized to conduct duties concerned with: operating or flying the Air System or; with the management of Passengers or cargo when in flight; and who are also qualified in accordance with (iaw) RA 21011.


b. Supernumerary Crew. A Supernumerary Crewmember is an individual, military or civilian, who is employed on an Air System and authorized to carry out a specific duty (that does not require an Aircrew qualification) while in flight or ground taxiing. This specific duty is to have an active role in achieving the purpose of the authorized flight and may involve the operation of Air System equipment/systems or authorized Equipment Not Basic to the Air System (ENBAS)2 under the supervision of the Air Systemís Aircrew.



RA2101 (1)

Entitlement to Conduct Flying Duties
2101(1) To fly or operate Air Systems governed by the MRP, Aircrew shall be qualified.
Entitlement to Conduct Flying Duties
1. Aviation Duty Holders (ADH) and Accountable Managers (Military Flying) (AM(MF)) should promulgate in orders the criteria for the award, or recognition of Aircrew qualifications.
2. UK Military Registered Air Systems. In order to fly or operate UK military registered Air Systems, Aircrew should be qualified in accordance with (iaw) at least one of the following criteria:
a. They are in possession of, or have previously been awarded, one of the following:

(1) The appropriate UK military flying badge1;
(2) A UK military or AM(MF) approved Remotely Piloted Air System
(RPAS) pilot/operator qualification;
(3) A UK military or AM(MF) approved non-Pilot Aircrew qualification. b. They are undergoing an ADH or AM(MF) approved training course

and the duties to be authorized form part of the course of training; c. They are part of a recognized foreign exchange programme
approved by single-Service chiefs;
d. They possess the appropriate civil licence; ►◄

e. They are in possession of, or have previously been awarded, a foreign
military qualification that has been approved as equivalent by the ADH or AM(MF).



By the fact they do not possess a flying badge (YET- they will get one, as the new flying badge especially mission specialist published above will be gifted to CC in due course according to other offical forums).

So for NOW- the highlighted RA's state they are supernumary crew and not aircrew. The Regulator is pretty clear I would say.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 08:47
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Originally Posted by heights good View Post
Perhaps....I will be very much a mister by that point and too civilian to care 😀

I can feel the demise / amalgamation of the WSOp Cadre quite soon, starting with the award of our Flying Badge to ground based trades. (or handing them a Flying Badge minus a crown).. its a matter of time before you have MAMS doing ALM jobs and CC doing MSO jobs. not sure whod muscle in on the RW Cmn role though... hookers? /TSW?

>> Coastguard are recruiting, if that floats your boat?


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Old 15th Jun 2020, 15:23
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Does this apply to Ground Engineers /Crew Chiefs (i.e. those who fly with the aircraft) - a 'flying spanner' badge with r without a crown (substitute a nut/ bolt/ or wiggly amp thingy?
Who actually needs to have their ego polished by the award of a badge?
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