New Flying Badges
Warning: this post contains extreme banter. Do not read on if you are a delicate soul
HG
With that in mind maybe someone could let us know what a ME pilot has to do in order to get their wings.
Maybe they should have different wings to everyone else?!
Pulls pin, releases the fly-off handle and rolls the grenade into the room whilst quietly retiring to enjoy his Saturday night.
BV
With that in mind maybe someone could let us know what a ME pilot has to do in order to get their wings.
Maybe they should have different wings to everyone else?!
Pulls pin, releases the fly-off handle and rolls the grenade into the room whilst quietly retiring to enjoy his Saturday night.
BV
I think you're perhaps over estimating the power of the badge Chugalug.
I doubt pax would not listen to cabin crew because they don't have a badge. It's quite obvious they are in a position of authority on a military flight because they're the ones in flying suits running the show up and down the aisles.
I doubt pax would not listen to cabin crew because they don't have a badge. It's quite obvious they are in a position of authority on a military flight because they're the ones in flying suits running the show up and down the aisles.
Imagine the effect if a QR came out that in order to rationalise the many aircrew specialities that have evolved over the years, in future only pilots (incl RPAS Pilots of course!) would be entitled to wear their Flying Badge
on the left breast. Henceforth all other aircrew would wear sleeve badges similar to those now worn by Cabin Crew. Do you think the resulting outcry could be mollified by them being told that the power of badges is much over estimated?
Perhaps you are underestimating it. All manner of people can wear flying suits but only aircrew wear Flying Badges. That is the key indicator that you are aircrew, be it a Pilot, Navigator, ALM, whatever. RAF Cabin Crew are aircrew and yet are denied the Flying Badge. Rather than question the effectiveness or otherwise of the badge they should just be given it. Common justice calls for that.
Imagine the effect if a QR came out that in order to rationalise the many aircrew specialities that have evolved over the years, in future only pilots (incl RPAS Pilots of course!) would be entitled to wear their Flying Badge
on the left breast. Henceforth all other aircrew would wear sleeve badges similar to those now worn by Cabin Crew. Do you think the resulting outcry could be mollified by them being told that the power of badges is much over estimated?
Imagine the effect if a QR came out that in order to rationalise the many aircrew specialities that have evolved over the years, in future only pilots (incl RPAS Pilots of course!) would be entitled to wear their Flying Badge
on the left breast. Henceforth all other aircrew would wear sleeve badges similar to those now worn by Cabin Crew. Do you think the resulting outcry could be mollified by them being told that the power of badges is much over estimated?
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Ah, the joys of being a long-retired member of the "Two-winged Master Race" (qualification page dates 13.5.66). I can read all this lot with a satisfying sense of detachment.
Having said that, I agree with Chugalug
Oh, and BV: ME pilots extra training is to do a specialised course in either reading or writing. You knew that was the reason for the two-man crew of course.
Having said that, I agree with Chugalug
Oh, and BV: ME pilots extra training is to do a specialised course in either reading or writing. You knew that was the reason for the two-man crew of course.
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Chugalug,
I’m intrigued why you feel the need to tilt at this particular windmill? If I am to believe your profile you left the RAF in 1973 - why is the dress standard or status of currently serving members so important to you?
I’m intrigued why you feel the need to tilt at this particular windmill? If I am to believe your profile you left the RAF in 1973 - why is the dress standard or status of currently serving members so important to you?
What has all this to do with RAF Cabin Crew and their aircrew status? Everything!
Chugalug, please correct me if I have misunderstood, but your issue is with the legal status of cabin crew (aircrew, supernumerary or pax)? My point is merely that the badge doesn't maketh the person.
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Chugalug, apologies if I have bitten off an insignificant element of your argument.
The thread title is about badges and your comment “Rather than question the effectiveness or otherwise of the badge they should just be given it” also appeared to be focusing on badges.
You can see my confusion.
So if it isn’t about badges, and nobody here is suggesting Cabin Crew are anything other than suitably trained and competent at their job, what is your point?
The thread title is about badges and your comment “Rather than question the effectiveness or otherwise of the badge they should just be given it” also appeared to be focusing on badges.
You can see my confusion.
So if it isn’t about badges, and nobody here is suggesting Cabin Crew are anything other than suitably trained and competent at their job, what is your point?
tio, I very much doubt you have misunderstood anything.
SM, Which insignificant bit?
SM, Which insignificant bit?
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Badges, which is coincidentally the subject of the thread.
I wondered why you cared about which badges people wore so much. You said you didn’t and you cared about air safety. Which we all do.
I’m confused about your point about Cabin Crew if it isn’t about badges
I wondered why you cared about which badges people wore so much. You said you didn’t and you cared about air safety. Which we all do.
I’m confused about your point about Cabin Crew if it isn’t about badges
Ok, so you want CC to be recognised by the Service as Aircrew should there be an inquiry (as you have mentioned the MAA and RAF recognising them as different?) and they already have a badge so it's the official Aircrew tick you would like to see?
New readers please read all the preceding posts or alternatively troll at your discretion....
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OK SM I'll bite. The thread is about Flying Badges, all right, new Flying Badges. Fairly early on a pic was posted of an RAF Cabin Crew Member in No1's. On her sleeve is her Cabin Crew trade badge. Being a Ground Trade she is not entitled to a Flying Badge as the RAF does not recognise her as Aircrew. The MAA, the RAF's Air Regulator, states that she is Aircrew. Indeed, if she were not aircrew the RAF would not be operating in accordance with the a/c RTS when she is on duty as part of her constituted crew iaw the RTS. That is how we got to here.
New readers please read all the preceding posts or alternatively troll at your discretion....
New readers please read all the preceding posts or alternatively troll at your discretion....
Are you suggesting the RAF are operating in an unsafe manner? If so please do give specifics and I’ll pass your worries on to the MAA.
Of course he’s suggesting that the RAF operates in an unsafe manner, that’s all he ever does. Every single thread ends up getting back to accidents, particularly the Chinook. This is an internet forum, that’s all, it’s not as if it’s a parliamentary committee with some power.
It strikes me that questions of uniform and badges are very much a peacetime concern- I don't recollect anyone being too concerned when the bullets are flying
IIRC some of the great leaders and fighting men fought in very non-standard uniforms. R E Lee fought the whole of the US Civil War in a simple coat with Colonel's badges, Grant was notoriously "badly" if not "awfully" dressed, Wellington fought in civies and Montgomery in battle dress. Mussolini on the other hand.......
And that applies to the front-line as well - the last "well turned out" British unit that saw action was probably the Light Brigade under Cardigan - tho I don't think their uniforms had much impact on either their bravery or the result. There was even the fashion for "Zouaves" in the US Civil War, the Franco German War of 18970 and the First World War - but that normally lasted up to the point they met the enemy.
IIRC some of the great leaders and fighting men fought in very non-standard uniforms. R E Lee fought the whole of the US Civil War in a simple coat with Colonel's badges, Grant was notoriously "badly" if not "awfully" dressed, Wellington fought in civies and Montgomery in battle dress. Mussolini on the other hand.......
And that applies to the front-line as well - the last "well turned out" British unit that saw action was probably the Light Brigade under Cardigan - tho I don't think their uniforms had much impact on either their bravery or the result. There was even the fashion for "Zouaves" in the US Civil War, the Franco German War of 18970 and the First World War - but that normally lasted up to the point they met the enemy.
I recall there being much animosity from those who'd been through the Airman Aircrew course at Finningley when the 'FC' brevet first appeared. The people who wore them had only minimal training (in those days) and were simply carrying out their ground skills in an airborne environment.
One 'FC' wearer appeared on our flight deck at some airshow static. The badge was quite new, so one of the groundcrew asked what it was. Whereupon our Air Eng quipped "He flies on the AWACS and fixes things - hence the 'Fuse Changer' badge".
Which was a little harsh, I guess?
I was fortunate enough to fly on a Voyager AAR sortie last September. Looking after our small group were a Voyager pilot and an air steward. Both looked very smart and both wore 'squadron' name badges with relevant insignia. For the pilot that meant 'Wings' and for the steward the 'CC' badge.
Pedants and keyboard SWOs will doubtless fulminate about dress standards, but I don't give a bugger. Both carried out their duties efficiently and were a delight to have met.
One 'FC' wearer appeared on our flight deck at some airshow static. The badge was quite new, so one of the groundcrew asked what it was. Whereupon our Air Eng quipped "He flies on the AWACS and fixes things - hence the 'Fuse Changer' badge".
Which was a little harsh, I guess?
I was fortunate enough to fly on a Voyager AAR sortie last September. Looking after our small group were a Voyager pilot and an air steward. Both looked very smart and both wore 'squadron' name badges with relevant insignia. For the pilot that meant 'Wings' and for the steward the 'CC' badge.
Pedants and keyboard SWOs will doubtless fulminate about dress standards, but I don't give a bugger. Both carried out their duties efficiently and were a delight to have met.
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I recall there being much animosity from those who'd been through the Airman Aircrew course at Finningley when the 'FC' brevet first appeared. The people who wore them had only minimal training (in those days) and were simply carrying out their ground skills in an airborne environment.
However, one of the FC branch "new boys" was posted direct to the Nimrod AEW Training Course Design Team at Waddington before they had an aircraft....he was presented with a flying badge for flying 3 sorties as a passenger in a maritime Nimrod MR2! (It was he who was presented with a cornflakes packet with the FC badge inside as a free gift at one beer call).
No, I want to avoid Inquiries by avoiding the avoidable accidents that lead to them. By employing full time professional Cabin Crew who are recognised by the RAF as Aircrew, even if an accident cannot be avoided, its toll if any might at least be greatly reduced. If all it takes for them to be so recognised is a tick, so yes, I would like to see a tick. If not, then whatever else is needed for them to be so recognised by the RAF and hence awarded their Flying Badges as RAF Aircrew.
Bite away old boy, I’ve just gone back through the whole thread and there are no photos of Cabin Crew here. Unless you are suggesting that “New Readers” need to read the entire bulletin board before they are allowed to ask a question?
Are you suggesting the RAF are operating in an unsafe manner? If so please do give specifics and I’ll pass your worries on to the MAA.
Are you suggesting the RAF are operating in an unsafe manner? If so please do give specifics and I’ll pass your worries on to the MAA.
Re the pic of the young lady concerned, my apologies. I had thought her to be in this thread but had confused it with a very similar thread. To satisfy your curiosity, and those others like you, here she is:-
'Non-Traditional' Aircrew