The F-35 thread, Mk II
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SUM MOR F-35A gorilla in HANGAR & in the wild: https://www.turdef.com/Photo/Origina...b113860a4f.jpg
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 10th Sep 2022 at 14:34. Reason: +jpg
F35 thread Mk 2
SpazSinbad
Unclear if different types of engine blanks are used ashore/at sea, most probably the fabric blanks at sea (it would appear they are ‘foldable’ and space is a at a premium) also in very adverse weather they would flex but not detach if fitted correctly; it would appear from the image that they are secured by 1980’s vintage pip pins, possibly with a Royal Warrant
It would appear that the F35 engine compressor is situated some way back from the intakes via a bifurcated duct, I am unsure if there is a direct line of sight for aircrew/engineers to make a quick inspection for FOD without opening an inspection hatch.
If indeed the FAA/RN Aircraft ZN152 was fitted with these type of blanks it poses the question on how could one detach without leaving some tell-tale signs of distress on the aircraft skin, or was it removed left in the intake to collect later and forgotten about as people sometimes do!
I do remember a F4 Phantom being ranged on HMS Ark Royal post engine change, the cumbersome and heavy toolbox needed moving from the hangar to the deck so it was positioned in the engine exhaust for a ‘ride’ unfortunately during an unusual engine start there was a poofff and the toolbox was lost to the Mid Atlantic
Unclear if different types of engine blanks are used ashore/at sea, most probably the fabric blanks at sea (it would appear they are ‘foldable’ and space is a at a premium) also in very adverse weather they would flex but not detach if fitted correctly; it would appear from the image that they are secured by 1980’s vintage pip pins, possibly with a Royal Warrant
It would appear that the F35 engine compressor is situated some way back from the intakes via a bifurcated duct, I am unsure if there is a direct line of sight for aircrew/engineers to make a quick inspection for FOD without opening an inspection hatch.
If indeed the FAA/RN Aircraft ZN152 was fitted with these type of blanks it poses the question on how could one detach without leaving some tell-tale signs of distress on the aircraft skin, or was it removed left in the intake to collect later and forgotten about as people sometimes do!
I do remember a F4 Phantom being ranged on HMS Ark Royal post engine change, the cumbersome and heavy toolbox needed moving from the hangar to the deck so it was positioned in the engine exhaust for a ‘ride’ unfortunately during an unusual engine start there was a poofff and the toolbox was lost to the Mid Atlantic
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We should know more when the FULL report is made available to the pubics. Meanwhile a retired very knowledgeable F135 engine mechanic has said this: "The F-35 has a bifurcated inlet duct, so low power operation with one side blocked apparently provided enough airflow for the engine. Other considerations are that the B has the lift fan drive shaft running down the center of the inlet duct after the sides join, and the cover probably turned sideways as it got sucked down the inlet duct and got wedged against the inlet guide vanes of the F135. But big issues with the partial fan blockage and / or FOD damage at high power / high airflow."
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Building up the Lightning Force – when will the UK get its F-35 jets? 14 Sep 2022 Navy Lookout
...“First casualty
The MoD has published its interim report into the first F-35 loss suffered by the UK. ZM152 crashed into the sea on take-off from HMS Queen Elizabeth in November 2021. It confirms the cause was an engine blank (a cover used to prevent ingress of water and debris) that engineers failed to remove before flight. For the passage through Suez Canal the previous day, all F-35Bs on the flight deck had protective Red Gear fitted which included engine intake blanks. A local accounting procedure was in place, but this was not used for the mass fitting and removal of Red Gear during the Suez transit. Unable to take in enough air, the engine could not attain enough power for take off but it was too late to abort. The pilot ejected safely, landing on the flight deck without even getting wet. The aircraft was recovered from the sea bed in good time and has subsequently been returned to the UK. The airframe has been written off, but some parts can probably be salvaged for re-use. [sure]
The loss of a jet costing around £90M due to such basic human error is hard to comprehend and many keyboard warriors are blaming the pilot for failure to conduct a thorough enough visual inspection himself before taking off. It has been suggested that the blank had possibly been dislodged and pushed deeper into the intake where it would have been hard to see. More about the precise circumstances and how procedures will be revised will doubtless be available when the full report is published in future. Although a mistake by RAF 617 Squadron, it should be remembered that an RN pilot commanded the unit at the time which numbers RN personnel among its engineers. Accidents are an inherent part of fast jet aviation and carrier operations carry additional risk. The USN also lost an F-35 to a landing mishap on USS Carl Vinson in January and an F/A-18 blown off the deck of USS Harry S Truman in July 2022....” https://www.navylookout.com/building...its-f-35-jets/
...“First casualty
The MoD has published its interim report into the first F-35 loss suffered by the UK. ZM152 crashed into the sea on take-off from HMS Queen Elizabeth in November 2021. It confirms the cause was an engine blank (a cover used to prevent ingress of water and debris) that engineers failed to remove before flight. For the passage through Suez Canal the previous day, all F-35Bs on the flight deck had protective Red Gear fitted which included engine intake blanks. A local accounting procedure was in place, but this was not used for the mass fitting and removal of Red Gear during the Suez transit. Unable to take in enough air, the engine could not attain enough power for take off but it was too late to abort. The pilot ejected safely, landing on the flight deck without even getting wet. The aircraft was recovered from the sea bed in good time and has subsequently been returned to the UK. The airframe has been written off, but some parts can probably be salvaged for re-use. [sure]
The loss of a jet costing around £90M due to such basic human error is hard to comprehend and many keyboard warriors are blaming the pilot for failure to conduct a thorough enough visual inspection himself before taking off. It has been suggested that the blank had possibly been dislodged and pushed deeper into the intake where it would have been hard to see. More about the precise circumstances and how procedures will be revised will doubtless be available when the full report is published in future. Although a mistake by RAF 617 Squadron, it should be remembered that an RN pilot commanded the unit at the time which numbers RN personnel among its engineers. Accidents are an inherent part of fast jet aviation and carrier operations carry additional risk. The USN also lost an F-35 to a landing mishap on USS Carl Vinson in January and an F/A-18 blown off the deck of USS Harry S Truman in July 2022....” https://www.navylookout.com/building...its-f-35-jets/
Pretty expensive result for such a basic mistake by the Engineers. The question re the Pilot is if during his walk around preflight could or should he have seen the cover. Also begged is whether there were lengthy warning ribbons attached to the blank that would have facilitated Engineers and/or Pilot seeing it.
Airplanes can be replaced...even at extremely high cost....but human lives are irreplaceable.
Hopefully an frank evaluation of safety procedures looking for other waiting uh oh's will be done.
Airplanes can be replaced...even at extremely high cost....but human lives are irreplaceable.
Hopefully an frank evaluation of safety procedures looking for other waiting uh oh's will be done.
A long piece of `pussers cord ,joining blanks would have been sensible......
I think that what is gripping a lot of contributors is how bloody silly an event it was ................. no lining up of holes in cheese, no malpractice, no dodgy components, no bad weather, no darkness, no enemy.
Negligence on the day, negligence in SOPs. Thank God the pilot survived but such accidents can be designed out down to a 1 in a million chance.
Negligence on the day, negligence in SOPs. Thank God the pilot survived but such accidents can be designed out down to a 1 in a million chance.
I guess that they can afford that.
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Pilot Ejects OK : F-35 crashes at Hill Air Force Base (ksltv.com)
"Smoke from the F-35 crash at the Hill Air Force base."
https://ksltv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/FAFB-Crash-101922.jpg
"Smoke from the F-35 crash at the Hill Air Force base."
https://ksltv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/FAFB-Crash-101922.jpg
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Pilot walking: F-35 crashes at Hill Air Force Base - Deseret News
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Margarita Robles quietly finalises the purchase of F-35 fighter jets from the US 22 Oct 2022 Juan Pons
https://atalayar.com/en/content/marg...ighter-jets-us
"The Secretary of State for Defence also maintains secrecy and avoids citing the F-35 as an option to the Air Force's F-18 and the Navy's Harrier....
...The total number of aircraft in Spanish demand is kept under lock and key.
The aim is to obtain an initial batch of at least twenty F-35A aircraft for the Air Force and another dozen in F-35B vertical take-off configuration to renew the L-61 Juan Carlos I aircraft carrier's air projection potential. Once the contract is signed, the Spanish requests will enter the production line of the immense F-35 factory that Lockheed Martin has in Fort Worth, Texas, where thousands of orders are accumulating, making it practically impossible for the first units to arrive in Spain before 2030...."
https://atalayar.com/en/content/marg...ighter-jets-us
"The Secretary of State for Defence also maintains secrecy and avoids citing the F-35 as an option to the Air Force's F-18 and the Navy's Harrier....
...The total number of aircraft in Spanish demand is kept under lock and key.
The aim is to obtain an initial batch of at least twenty F-35A aircraft for the Air Force and another dozen in F-35B vertical take-off configuration to renew the L-61 Juan Carlos I aircraft carrier's air projection potential. Once the contract is signed, the Spanish requests will enter the production line of the immense F-35 factory that Lockheed Martin has in Fort Worth, Texas, where thousands of orders are accumulating, making it practically impossible for the first units to arrive in Spain before 2030...."
Another "fleets within fleets" issue ahead for the UK (and others) if the new AESA AN/APG-85 cannot be retrofitted to earlier lots than Lot 4.
F-35 Will Get New Radar Under Massive Upgrade Initiative | The Drive
F-35 Will Get New Radar Under Massive Upgrade Initiative | The Drive
The Jerusalem Post is reporting that the US is barring IAF pilots who hold foreign (I assume non-Israeli (excluding US?)) passports from flying the F-35i.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-726853
If this is true, I wonder if this is going to/has spread to other countries operating the F-35.
This move by the US stems from an increasingly expanding focus on information security and safeguarding US interests. As a result, sources claim the IAF accepted this stipulation and gave up assigning pilots to F-35 Adir aircraft.
If this is true, I wonder if this is going to/has spread to other countries operating the F-35.
The Jerusalem Post is reporting that the US is barring IAF pilots who hold foreign (I assume non-Israeli (excluding US?)) passports from flying the F-35i.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-726853
If this is true, I wonder if this is going to/has spread to other countries operating the F-35.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-726853
If this is true, I wonder if this is going to/has spread to other countries operating the F-35.
Are there no Commonwealth national / Dual national / Irish national FJ pilots in the RAF or RN these days? There is also potentially the question of exchange pilots.
I assumed this affected dual-citizens who weren't dual US / Israeli.
Israel allows dual citizenship except for:
I assumed this affected dual-citizens who weren't dual US / Israeli.
Israel allows dual citizenship except for:
- dual citizenship with 'enemy countries'
- members of the Knesset
- holders of 'sensitive security positions'
- naturalized non-Jewish citizens
Another "fleets within fleets" issue ahead for the UK (and others) if the new AESA AN/APG-85 cannot be retrofitted to earlier lots than Lot 4.u
F-35 Will Get New Radar Under Massive Upgrade Initiative | The Drive
F-35 Will Get New Radar Under Massive Upgrade Initiative | The Drive
Given it was / is touted as the most whupass piece of kit since the invention of the fighter , will NOT upgrading these aircraft be a massive loss to its unequaled capabilities?
Would the buyers of these now ancient early lot aircraft been warned that they’re taking delivery of something that the manufacturers will be ensuring is second class only a few years later , and if so , would they have been prepared to wait for later models?
Sorry if it was there & I missed it , but what’s the upgrade cost per aircraft?
How many aircraft in the UK fleet are hit by this & what will we do with them?
Thanks...