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Defence under a Corbyn Government

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Defence under a Corbyn Government

Old 4th Sep 2019, 19:42
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Hammond even looks like a rat
Yep, that's the level of discourse this country needs right now. From childish personal insults like this through to middle-aged yellow-vested thugs screaming abuse at MPs and yobbish football-style hooligan behaviour at pro-Brexit rallies, I'm constantly reminded as to which side of this debate most of the decent and rational people seem to be.

To paraphrase Will Self, 'Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist deplorable malcontent, but every racist deplorable malcontent voted for Brexit'.
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 19:45
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by oldmansquipper View Post
Corbyn & Defence? What 4kin defence?

Mark these wise words from Melchett01

"For me, Corbyn is the puppet. McDonnell and Momentum are the real puppet masters and the threat to Defence and the nation’s security. Should Corbyn ever be elected (and I’m with Vin Rouge here in thinking the Tories are currently in a hard right / populist echo chamber which may or may not reflect as much of he electorate as they imagine) I think we’ll find him being sidelined by his own people to press home the full extent of Marxist Government they want."
Absolutely correct- the real power is with McD and his cronies. They'll probably keep cuddly old JC on for a bit until his usefulness is over and then get rid of him.
I'm no fan of the Tories particularly but they are the best of a bad bunch at the moment.and what a lot of the electorate don't realise is that the slogan 'for the many, not the few' actually means destroying the middle class (the backbone of the country- you and me) and replacing the current elite with another smaller one- the party faithful and inner circle. The long term goal is to raid personal wealth, destroy ambition and to have the majority of the population totally dependent on the state for everything- jobs (through nationaisation or greater state control), housing (by deterring home ownership and controlling the housing market), health (ok we're already there with the NHS), controlling education, the police (I foresee the disbandment of regional constabularies and replacement with a national police force, think it can't happen? It already has in Scotland) and the welfare state. Marxist governments work on control, if the state controls everything then the population can be kept in line.
With regards to defence, with MCD's spending plans the country will be massively (even more) in debt very quickly, I would expect that there won't much money for defence in the pot but then with the aversion to foreign adventures and reliance on dialogue there won't be a perceived need, other than a semblance of home defence and to keep civpop in line.
Also bear in mind that a lot of the wealth generation in the country will disappear overseas or be nationalised (nationalised industries never make money- not business agile, not cost effective and no incentive). Add to that the increased trade unionism- JC, MCD and cronies are all backed by the more militant trade unions who will effectively run the country means its a very bleak picture.
Throughout the tenure of the Blair Govt they resisted nationalising the railways despite it being a permanent manifesto item and constant badgering from the RMT and ASLEF- ever wondered why? Because it would put the railway back 30 years overnight, cost billions and the railway would be run by the Unions- anyone want Mick Cash as SoS for transport?
What really annoys me is the hypocrisy of the JC loving celebs; JK Rowling, Ellie Goulding, Maxine Peake etc - happy to spout off but knowing that their millions are safely tucked away in overseas tax havens.

God.. I sound like Peter Hitchens and I'm now to read Orwell's Animal Farm again.
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 20:37
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Mil-26Man;10561878][QUOTE]Hammond even looks like a rat

You start with

Yep, that's the level of discourse this country needs right now. From childish personal insults like this through to middle-aged yellow-vested thugs screaming abuse at MPs and yobbish football-style hooligan behaviour at pro-Brexit rallies, I'm constantly reminded as to which side of this debate most of the decent and rational people seem to be.

And finish with
To paraphrase Will Self, 'Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist deplorable malcontent, but every racist deplorable malcontent voted for Brexit'.
Nice, that's the level of debate we need!

Last edited by insty66; 4th Sep 2019 at 20:38. Reason: Removal of repeated words
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 20:57
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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From the moment this thread was started it was only ever going to go one way; nice one.
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 21:50
  #65 (permalink)  

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Military coup, anyone?
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 21:56
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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It will be interesting times if we get the Election to see what the Labour Party are planning to do to the forces, in my water I feel they will rob Peter to pay Paul and that is the military budget. The daft thing is if Labour remain in in the EU half of their plans etc will be blocked by the same EU. I watched Andrew Marr tonight and he caught the Shadow Minister out who said they would stand on remain, but also get a better leave deal from the EU, he was stumped when asked if the did get a better leave deal would they recommend it. He couldn't answer it.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 01:08
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Herod,

The military can't even manage themselves, let alone the country!

And you do realise that you are suggesting Treason?
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 07:49
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PapaDolmio View Post
Absolutely correct- the real power is with McD and his cronies. They'll probably keep cuddly old JC on for a bit until his usefulness is over and then get rid of him.
I'm no fan of the Tories particularly but they are the best of a bad bunch at the moment.and what a lot of the electorate don't realise is that the slogan 'for the many, not the few' actually means destroying the middle class (the backbone of the country- you and me) and replacing the current elite with another smaller one- the party faithful and inner circle. The long term goal is to raid personal wealth, destroy ambition and to have the majority of the population totally dependent on the state for everything- jobs (through nationaisation or greater state control), housing (by deterring home ownership and controlling the housing market), health (ok we're already there with the NHS), controlling education, the police (I foresee the disbandment of regional constabularies and replacement with a national police force, think it can't happen? It already has in Scotland) and the welfare state. Marxist governments work on control, if the state controls everything then the population can be kept in line.
With regards to defence, with MCD's spending plans the country will be massively (even more) in debt very quickly, I would expect that there won't much money for defence in the pot but then with the aversion to foreign adventures and reliance on dialogue there won't be a perceived need, other than a semblance of home defence and to keep civpop in line.
Also bear in mind that a lot of the wealth generation in the country will disappear overseas or be nationalised (nationalised industries never make money- not business agile, not cost effective and no incentive). Add to that the increased trade unionism- JC, MCD and cronies are all backed by the more militant trade unions who will effectively run the country means its a very bleak picture.
Throughout the tenure of the Blair Govt they resisted nationalising the railways despite it being a permanent manifesto item and constant badgering from the RMT and ASLEF- ever wondered why? Because it would put the railway back 30 years overnight, cost billions and the railway would be run by the Unions- anyone want Mick Cash as SoS for transport?
What really annoys me is the hypocrisy of the JC loving celebs; JK Rowling, Ellie Goulding, Maxine Peake etc - happy to spout off but knowing that their millions are safely tucked away in overseas tax havens.

God.. I sound like Peter Hitchens and I'm now to read Orwell's Animal Farm again.
Leader writer for the Mail?
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 09:04
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Leader writer for the Mail?
Which bit is wrong...?
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 09:24
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE][QUOTE=Mil-26Man;10561878]
Hammond even looks like a rat
Quote:
You start with

Yep, that's the level of discourse this country needs right now. From childish personal insults like this through to middle-aged yellow-vested thugs screaming abuse at MPs and yobbish football-style hooligan behaviour at pro-Brexit rallies, I'm constantly reminded as to which side of this debate most of the decent and rational people seem to be.

And finish with
To paraphrase Will Self, 'Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist deplorable malcontent, but every racist deplorable malcontent voted for Brexit'.
Nice, that's the level of debate we need!
Which bit is wrong...?
Mil-26Man is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2019, 11:12
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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It doesn't matter - Social spending (NHS, Pensions, Care, Social security etc ) is forecast to rise to 45% of the UK budget by 2040 ish

The money has to come from somewhere and I'd guess the military will suffer as ever........... but that's only 2% of the whole - so either benefits (including pensions) are slashed or taxes go up... way up........
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 11:20
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
Which bit is wrong...?
Say again, everything after,“The long term goal.........”. And pretty much everything before!
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 13:15
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by woptb View Post

Say again, everything after,“The long term goal.........”. And pretty much everything before!
Sorry, can't fault the original post.
McD's policies will have exactly the effect noted.

During the last election campaign, Jerremy Vine intervied all of the main pary leaders live on his radio show.
Corbyn was brilliant at the social stuff, but that's where it all ended.
When asked about defence, business, foreign policy, and other non-social departments he was lost.
The only stock answer he could come up with was that he'd pay for eveything by taxing business.

The fact that nearly half the working population (ie. The 'Poor'...) don't actually pay any tax and the fact that over a quarter of the UK's tax take is paid by around 100,000 people (Many of whom will leave the UK under a Corbyn gov) was lost on him...

The poor, who have been voting Labour for the last century or so, are still poor...
It's in Corbyn and McD's interest to keep them that way...


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Old 5th Sep 2019, 14:27
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Original post is complete conjecture,as is yours, based on zero evidence. Other than 1% of the populace, paying 27% of the tax. People will leave the country,yawn! The same old tropes from the right wing press!

Put this post in Jet Blast its crap!
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 14:42
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by woptb View Post
Original post is complete conjecture,as is yours, based on zero evidence. Other than 1% of the populace, paying 27% of the tax. People will leave the country,yawn! The same old tropes from the right wing press!

Put this post in Jet Blast its crap!
Have it your way... Yawn...
The rich will leave the country
It is the threat of a wealth tax that is scaring wealthy individuals.

It is a theme to which shadow chancellor John McDonnell has returned several times. In 2012 he gave his endorsement to a proposal by University of Glasgow academic Greg Philo (sometimes mistakenly called an ‘economist’ but actually a professor in sociology) to subject wealthy individuals to a one-off wealth tax of 20 per cent in the hope of using it to pay off the government’s debts.

‘The wealthiest 10 per cent own £4,000 billion,’ said McDonnell. ‘If you took 20 per cent of that you would then have £800 billion and we could tackle our deficit — we could tackle our debt — four-fifths of our debt would then be wiped out.

So we’re saying just collect the money and make those who created the crisis pay for the crisis and that way you overcome it.’
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 14:47
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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I am sure that Defence would become a priority under Corbyn because the Services will need to be realigned with those more further to the East. One thing is for sure, the UK is extremely unlikely to remain a member of NATO, or any other Western defence agreement post an extreme leftist, Marxist/Trot, Government. Corbyn will be "re-educated" in a Gulag and McD etc, will be running the show.

Am I paranoid Orwellian? Absolutely!, and I suspect I am not alone.

IG
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 15:37
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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" because the Services will need to be realigned with those more further to the East"

OMG!! You're going to follow the Germans...............................
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 16:00
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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You’re making my point! Add this to the other rather fanciful ‘Colonel Blimp’ discussions on JB! Apparently the NRA has a British chapter if you’re interested?
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 19:20
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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You're going to follow the Germans..............................
Although I considered Belgium, I decided that it would not meet the ideological criteria.

WOPT

If you consider your point to be that a realignment of defence strategy and direction is "fanciful", then I must assume that you do not accept the necessity for the defense posture of the West over the last 70 years. The Western Powers did not continue their drive through Germany at the end of the war that resulted in a divided Germany. Equally the infamous wall did not need to be built to keep Western troops from invading East Germany, but rather for keeping millions of Germans trapped inside a communist cage. Poland resisted a German invasion but still crumbled under a later invasion from Russia, ditto Czechoslovakia, etc. "Liberation" is not a realistic interpretation of events.

Following on from the recent grab of Crimea, where do you suggest that the next "Liberation" will occur?: Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Finland?

I respectfully submit that you may wish to reconsider your proposal that these narratives be consigned to JB simply because they do not align with your alternate view of reality.

Further:

I have never owned a rifle so no requirement to join any organisation similar to the NRA .

IG

Last edited by Imagegear; 5th Sep 2019 at 20:00.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 19:39
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Mil-26Man;10562240][QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Mil-26Man View Post

Which bit is wrong...?
Well I agree about the childish insults. But Mr Self's clever smear / not smear is equally as bad, by cleverly pretending to not paint leave voters as a "a racist deplorable malcontent" he manages to do just that. He's clearly much cleverer than wot I am.

In my opinion his sneering is a fine example of the kind of attitudes that harden Leavers positions and create divisions that are beginning to seem impossible to heal.

I'd also say it's a fairly safe bet that plenty of racist deplorable malcontents voted Remain
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