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'Eject' versus 'Bailout'

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'Eject' versus 'Bailout'

Old 18th Aug 2019, 01:14
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Question 'Eject' versus 'Bailout'

I was listening to a podcast where a Thunderbirds pilot was briefing his passenger and said that the command words for ejection would be "Bailout! Bailout! Bailout!". I did a little research and see that this has been in USAF use since at least 2017.... but I cannot find when it changed or why.

Anyone know? It seems the USN still use "Eject! Eject! Eject!", which is what I was taught.

Cheers!
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 02:07
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Yes, you are correct, the Martin Baker ejection seat is the global standard.
Eject is correct terminology: the USAF have it wrong yet again. (USN myself .... )
We had a talk about that a year or so ago.

The powder blue folk also refer to a head as a cranium and a box as a container.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 02:45
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But what do the call windows, door and walls in the USAF LW?
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 08:22
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My Martin Baker moment came in 1995 in the back seat of a USAF trained Dutch pilot. He said “Bailout, Bailout” . I knew what he meant!
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 08:43
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In the F-16 community we differentiate between the command to eject which is "Bailout, Bailout, Bailout", and the word "eject" which is used when talking about ejection in preparation for the event. This is to avoid confusion having the pax prematurely pull the handle when the pilots intent was only to prepare for it. Kind of the same as the difference between the term ready for departure and cleared for take-off.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 09:03
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F-16GUY, that's a useful explanation of using different words to avoid any misunderstanding, providing everybody is aware of the difference. However, perhaps there is a need for standard terminology, particularly given the wide spread of ejection seats across military aviation in all corners of the world. There are many stories (true and fanciful) of ejection commands being misheard or the wrong person exiting an aircraft.

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Old 18th Aug 2019, 09:05
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Presumably not using the word eject when briefing for a pre meditated ejection is too difficult for the USAF then?
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 09:10
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So aircrew now sit on a 'bailout' seat?

As an outside I find that terminology hugely confusing!
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 09:17
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Surely it would be better to talk of 'Bailout' duing the foreplay then 'Eject' for the event itself...
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 09:20
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Originally Posted by Doctor Cruces View Post
Presumably not using the word eject when briefing for a pre meditated ejection is too difficult for the USAF then?
And the EPAF countries and all the other non native english speakers who fly the F-16 around the world.....

I think it makes good sense.

-We will have to use the ejection seat shortly if the engine does not relight
-I want you to establish the propper seating position for ejection
-Check that you are properly strapped in for ejection

If you have ever flown with inexperienced pax in the backseat of a fighter, you would know how overwhelmed they tend to be on the first few rides, and how much of their normal capacity is lost once they are strapped in and the canopy is closed. Furthermore, with all the noises in the cockpit, it would be fairly easy to miss hear what was said in those 3 sentences above, especially in a situation where one i scared shitless.


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Old 18th Aug 2019, 09:25
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
Surely it would be better to talk of 'Bailout' duing the foreplay then 'Eject' for the event itself...
Sure....

-I want you to pull the bailout handle.
-Remember the manual seat man separation handle in case the bailout seat fails.

By the way, I'm european and not american.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 09:49
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Interesting how different forces have different ideas on this.
The RAAF talk about "abandoning" during the foreplay (nice, Nige321) and then "eject" when it's time to pull the handle.
Eg, "Looks like we're going to have to abandon, Bloggs. Practice the correct posture, make sure you straps and chin strap are tight and visors down. Are you ready? EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!"
I do, however, see what F-16GUY is getting at - the main thing is continuity throughout your training.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 10:19
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“If we need to abandon the aircraft I will say the E word three times”
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 10:54
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When ordering the abandonment on the Victor (and presumably also Valiant and Vulcan which had the same set up) the command was "Emergency parachute, jump, jump". We three down the back did not have ejection seats of course and had to jump for it, before (hopefully) the two pilots banged out, presumably without any further command from the captain. All I know is that given the poor survival rate for rear crew abandonments on V Aircraft I am very pleased never to have put the procedure into practice.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 10:58
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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
“If we need to abandon the aircraft I will say the E word three times”
Act immediately... the second 2 will be echoes! I wonder if a briefer actually said that. I do hope so.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 11:26
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Tutor T1 - cadets are told to 'prepare to abandon the aircraft' followed by 'jump jump'.

Is that not also the correct procedure before 'eject eject'?
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 12:35
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I was listening to a podcast where a Thunderbirds pilot was briefing his passenger and said that the command words for ejection would be "Bailout! Bailout! Bailout!".
Could it be as simple as establishing a common terminology that fits aircraft like the C-135, KC-10, C-130, C-17....etc as well as Fighters?

In the old days...while flying in C-119's....every passenger was fitted with a parachute and given enough instruction about its use to prepare them for an emergency exit of the aircraft.

These days that probably is no longer the policy.

I would suggest if you are sitting in an Ejection Seat....and the order to "Bailout" is heard....you might just be able to figure it out with just a bit of thinking particularly when it is a Command Controlled Ejection where the Rear Seater departs first followed by the Front Seater.

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Old 18th Aug 2019, 12:35
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An interesting thread. For those who have the opportunity to fly occasionally with different operators and different nations, there certainly is scope for making a cognitive error and ejecting inadvertently if ambiguous or unintuitive wording is used.

One aspect that has not yet been discussed is aircraft that have a command ejection system whereby one person pulls the handle and both seats fire. If an immediate ejection is necessary, how does the person who first decides to pull the handle warn the person in the other cockpit? I always brief to try, time permitting, to call 'Ejecting' as you pull the handle. But that is a personal SOP and not a promulgated one where I fly.

Last edited by LOMCEVAK; 18th Aug 2019 at 13:09.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 12:58
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For Vulcan rear crew I seem to remember "Abandon aircraft; jump; jump; jump", with some mention of static line or manual override as appropriate.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 13:28
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Originally Posted by LOMCEVAK View Post
An interesting thread. For those who have the opportunity to fly occasionally with different operators and different nations, there certainly is scope for making a cognitive error and ejecting inadvertently if ambiguous or unintuitive wording is used.

One aspect that has not yet discussed is aircraft that have a command ejection system whereby one person pulls the handle and both seats fire. If an immediate ejection is necessary, how does the person who first decides to pull the handle warn the person in the other cockpit? I always brief to try, time permitting, to call 'Ejecting' as you pull the handle. But that is a personal SOP and not a promulgated one where I fly.
On Tornados there were essentially 3 levels of preparedness:

1) Carry out the ‘Abandoning’ drill from the checklist. This culminated in a call of ‘EJECT EJECT EJECT’ with the teaching being to pull the handle immediately after the third call. The checklist stated that it was preferable for the pilot to pull the handle if circumstances permitted; my best guess at why is that this would assure ejection of both crew, regardless of the command eject setting.

2) If there wasn’t time to prepare fully, either occupant could call ‘EJECT EJECT EJECT’ at any time and pull their handle. This gave a momentary warning to the other crew member to adopt the ejection posture.

3) In extremis you would just pull the handle and hope that you both made it...

The publications all distinguished between the general act of ‘abandoning’ and the specific act of ‘ejecting’. The only time the E-word should have been used was if you were going to pull the handle* but the threefold repetition helped to distinguish between a real command and an inadvertent mention of the E-word (for instance during the takeoff brief).

* I’ve just remembered there was a checklist prompt for the ‘command eject’ setting in the Pre-Takeoff and After Landing checks, which the rear-seater read out: so the (single) E-word was said at least twice per sortie. Context is everything!!
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