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Germany Plans to Renege on Pledge to Raise Military Spending, Defying Trump

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Germany Plans to Renege on Pledge to Raise Military Spending, Defying Trump

Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:53
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Germany Plans to Renege on Pledge to Raise Military Spending, Defying Trump

In the WSJ - Germany plans to renege on pledge to raise military spending.

From the article:-
The German government is poised to renege on its pledge to raise military spending, the latest gesture of defiance by Chancellor Angela Merkel toward President Donald Trump.

If confirmed at a cabinet meeting on Wednesday, the move would mark a fresh step in the gradual estrangement between the U.S. and its erstwhile loyal European ally and comes after President Trumpís repeated attacks North Atlantic Treaty Organization leaders for not meeting a 2% military-spending target.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:20
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How is a country reneging on something when it takes its own sovreign decisions.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:31
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Germany plans not to raise military spending - "You can't trust those Germans!"

Germany plans to raise military spending - "You can't trust those Germans!"
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:34
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Putin can have the Germans. If they don’t see the threat, then so be it. Any Article 5 response should be proportionate to the German fiscal commitment.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:41
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A commitment need not always be fiscal, West Coast. The Germans and everyone else responded the only time Article 5 has ever been invoked.

Could we say the US would do the same today?
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:03
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
A commitment need not always be fiscal, West Coast. The Germans and everyone else responded the only time Article 5 has ever been invoked.

Could we say the US would do the same today?
What do you have to point at that as of today the US wouldnít respond per its commitment? Op-eds donít count. The answer is, the US would of course respond despite certain member nation not hitting their funding target. Donít try and find equivance in the show of solidarity post 911 with fighting off tanks crossing the border. Or rallying NATO to fight genocide within Europe for that matter.




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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:08
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Just the words of your president and the right-wing of your political class (the wing that used to oppose Russia, ironically).

And in terms of responding to Article 5, there absolutely is equivalency I'm afraid - that's the entire point of it. 'One for all, and all for one' in every circumstance.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:19
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Putin can have the Germans. If they donít see the threat, then so be it. Any Article 5 response should be proportionate to the German fiscal commitment.
It is not Russia that is demanding German consumers should pay billions more for their energy so US shareholders get bigger dividends.

In 2002 German rejected the claims for War in Iraq, abused at the time they proved to be right and unwilling to bend despite the abuse.

Germans understand history very well.


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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:32
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
Just the words of your president and the right-wing of your political class (the wing that used to oppose Russia, ironically).

And in terms of responding to Article 5, there absolutely is equivalency I'm afraid - that's the entire point of it. 'One for all, and all for one' in every circumstance.
Can you kindly point me to where Trump has changed US commitment to article 5?

Glad you can find equivalence to droning around the midwest US in the flight levels and taking incoming.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:47
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NATO went to war over 9/11, and NATO soldiers (including Germans) died.

I have neither the time nor inclination to trawl through Trump' s Twitter feed, but it's all there if you care to look.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:47
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
It is not Russia that is demanding German consumers should pay billions more for their energy so US shareholders get bigger dividends.

In 2002 German rejected the claims for War in Iraq, abused at the time they proved to be right and unwilling to bend despite the abuse.

Germans understand history very well.
The question is do you understand history? Recent history at that. Do you understand the strategic implications of a weak Germany being energy dependant upon Russia, a stronger power? Itís not like the Russians havenít used NG deliveries to achieve their means. If they hadnít held Germany hostage over NG deliveries, it would only be a logical path to influence the Germans, now that they have, itís a proven tool.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:49
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
NATO went to war over 9/11, and NATO soldiers (including Germans) died.

I have neither the time nor inclination to trawl through Trump' s Twitter feed, but it's all there if you care to look.

You base your assumptions on Twitter, thatís all I need.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 20:14
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DOJ: Donald Trump's tweets are 'official statements of the President' - Washington Times

DOJ: Trump's tweets are 'official statements of the President'


...but you already knew that.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 20:43
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If Germans are paying more for their energy, it is because of decisions Germans made, and they long preceded Trump. But as usual, "when you don't like the way something is going, blame Trump".
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 21:50
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
The question is do you understand history? Recent history at that. Do you understand the strategic implications of a weak Germany being energy dependant upon Russia, a stronger power? Itís not like the Russians havenít used NG deliveries to achieve their means. If they hadnít held Germany hostage over NG deliveries, it would only be a logical path to influence the Germans, now that they have, itís a proven tool.
But they didn't did they. Russia isn't the country threatening to use Naval assets to blockade LNG ships delivering to customers is it, that was US Secretary of Energy. Russia hasn't attempt to blockade a country claiming it has got nuclear arms, while ignoring actions of its ally in funding them in Pakistan.

The attempt to sanction any company that is involved in Nordsteam 2 is warfare by another means, Europe is not playing ball any longer and US against this because it loses its hold.

US has used Oil as a weapon for decades just now countrys are refusing to bow down to US interests first rather than their own. US has been a force for good throughout the world BUT has also been a force for demanding its Industrys get preference over everybody elses, this keeps campaign cash coming to its politicians.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 21:53
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
If Germans are paying more for their energy, it is because of decisions Germans made, and they long preceded Trump. But as usual, "when you don't like the way something is going, blame Trump".
Germans will not be though, they will have guarantee of supply and not be concerned that Saudi's and their mates can blockade a country or threaten when it suits, like Qatar and Canada.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 22:15
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
How is a country reneging on something when it takes its own sovreign decisions.
Germany is part of NATO. But they are not fulfilling their NATO obligations. If their 'sovreign' (sic) decision is to not comply with their NATO obligations, then they should withdraw from NATO rather than expecting the US to cover their shortfall.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 02:19
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
But they didn't did they.
Are you kidding? 2009 Gazprom shut off the spigot. I get it, your Vladís apologist, but damn, 2009 wasnít that long ago.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 02:26
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Germany can do what they like...

Came second in two World Wars and accepted the money from the Marshall Plan to rebuild. Accepted the US help [and others] in the Berlin Airlift and protection in the Cold War. Maybe it's time for them to pay back if they want freedom..!
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 06:43
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Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post
Germany can do what they like...

Came second in two World Wars and accepted the money from the Marshall Plan to rebuild. Accepted the US help [and others] in the Berlin Airlift and protection in the Cold War. Maybe it's time for them to pay back if they want freedom..!
Haven't they? How much is enough?
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