Another fine (DHE) mess........
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Another fine (DHE) mess........
I recently caught wind of a chat in the crew room regarding some quarters near "here" occupied by some of our blokes and of which some are due to be flogged off.
Seeing as I was over that way visiting friends tonight I thought I'd take a look and see what's on offer.
Quite frankly I am near-speechless with disgust at what I discovered.
Those houses outlined for sale have clearly undergone very obvious and signficant renovation, which appears to have involved a total re-paint of all rendered brickwork, ironmongery, fences and railings; cleansing of all plastic fittings (window frames and gutters); power-washing of all bare brickwork, paths and exterior hard standings; and, get this, the planting of..........a shrubbery (Neee!) in the front gardens. All this just to make them saleable.
One hundred yards away are identical houses occupied by serving soldiers and airmen (and their families). Being so adjacent to the vacant quarters a direct comparison is easy and sadly depressing. Mouldy, yellowing window frames, moss and other greenery on the walls, lose brickwork, rusty guttering, domestic rubbish piling up in stair wells...I could go on.
So...assuming a hard copy of PpRuNe is, as per the rumours, still de-briefed every Monday at MOD Main Building, a few questions...
If quarters require significant work to be sold off, what does that say about the conditions we are forcing our service families to live in and the associated quality of life they have?
(I say "forcing" because to really rub salt in the wound I've just checked the website of the estate agent who is selling said houses and they are priced barely within financial reach of most first-time-buying servicemen based anywhere in the SE.)
Why is the cash to overhaul quarters only made available in order to make them presentable for sale?
Why are Annington Homes or whoever actually owns the hardware these days, allowed to get away with renting total $hitholes to DHE who in turn are allowed to get away with agreeing to rent total $hitholes from whoever? Finally why does the MOD not turn round and boot DHE up the ar$e or better still, completely in to touch?
In closing Tony, I hope you and your bloody family have a bloody nice time in your bloody nice chateau in the south of bloody France.
Seeing as I was over that way visiting friends tonight I thought I'd take a look and see what's on offer.
Quite frankly I am near-speechless with disgust at what I discovered.
Those houses outlined for sale have clearly undergone very obvious and signficant renovation, which appears to have involved a total re-paint of all rendered brickwork, ironmongery, fences and railings; cleansing of all plastic fittings (window frames and gutters); power-washing of all bare brickwork, paths and exterior hard standings; and, get this, the planting of..........a shrubbery (Neee!) in the front gardens. All this just to make them saleable.
One hundred yards away are identical houses occupied by serving soldiers and airmen (and their families). Being so adjacent to the vacant quarters a direct comparison is easy and sadly depressing. Mouldy, yellowing window frames, moss and other greenery on the walls, lose brickwork, rusty guttering, domestic rubbish piling up in stair wells...I could go on.
So...assuming a hard copy of PpRuNe is, as per the rumours, still de-briefed every Monday at MOD Main Building, a few questions...
If quarters require significant work to be sold off, what does that say about the conditions we are forcing our service families to live in and the associated quality of life they have?
(I say "forcing" because to really rub salt in the wound I've just checked the website of the estate agent who is selling said houses and they are priced barely within financial reach of most first-time-buying servicemen based anywhere in the SE.)
Why is the cash to overhaul quarters only made available in order to make them presentable for sale?
Why are Annington Homes or whoever actually owns the hardware these days, allowed to get away with renting total $hitholes to DHE who in turn are allowed to get away with agreeing to rent total $hitholes from whoever? Finally why does the MOD not turn round and boot DHE up the ar$e or better still, completely in to touch?
In closing Tony, I hope you and your bloody family have a bloody nice time in your bloody nice chateau in the south of bloody France.
Last edited by Talking Radalt; 3rd Aug 2002 at 00:09.
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I really do feel sorry for these guys. Visited a friend the other day who's a junior NCO, joined up with the promise of all his welfare looked after, no need to worry about civvy street housing/benefit problems etc. How much further from the truth could he be. These people are expected to fight, go into battle, yet we give them these "houses" to live in?! Rant over.
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quarters
i wonder for how much longer mq's will exist,the french dont have them should we? my mum was born at bovington in 1925, where she was born is now the tank museum. she remembers the quarter her dad had at lulworth, unlike the locals they had electric light! but they also had a range to cook on and because her dad was only a private the only carpet was a rug in the front room.
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...and if you were a civvy of course you would have the "right to buy" at a price commensurate with the rent you were paying.
A lot of people have been made very rich by the selling off of these quarters and as usual its the service families who are shunted around in order that the lining of fat cat pockets continues unnabated.
A lot of people have been made very rich by the selling off of these quarters and as usual its the service families who are shunted around in order that the lining of fat cat pockets continues unnabated.
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Why are we even surprised?
It is almost as obscene as the great con-trick when the last administration sold off all the previously nationalised industries. Owned by UK plc - ie all of us - we were supposed to be gleeful at the prospect of being allowed to buy a piece of them for ourselves! If I tried to sell something to you which you already owned, I would expect to be in the seriously brown and runny for it - unless in the name of government.
Ah well - plus ca change, plus ca le meme chose!
It is almost as obscene as the great con-trick when the last administration sold off all the previously nationalised industries. Owned by UK plc - ie all of us - we were supposed to be gleeful at the prospect of being allowed to buy a piece of them for ourselves! If I tried to sell something to you which you already owned, I would expect to be in the seriously brown and runny for it - unless in the name of government.
Ah well - plus ca change, plus ca le meme chose!
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I think 'canberra' has a point. SFQs really are an old-fashioned concept. They tend to ghettoize service personnel and their families, normally in clusters of sub-standard, depressing housing. I spend most of my working day and detachments surrounded by service personnel. Without wishing to sound anti-social, I don't really want to spend all my down-time surrounded by them as well.
The government ought to sell off all SFQs (oops, they already have) and introduce a realistically funded assisted house-purchase scheme for all service personnel.
The government ought to sell off all SFQs (oops, they already have) and introduce a realistically funded assisted house-purchase scheme for all service personnel.
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I am shortly due to leave my FQ after leaving the service. My carpets are 14 years old downstairs and 16 years old upstairs and niether in very good condition. I was told by DHE that there is a moritorium on carpets and that I would have to pay to have them cleaned on march out. They gort told in no uncertain terms that if they wanted to prolong the life of said carpets then they would have to pay for them to be cleaned. Eventually they agreed with my side of the arguement, especially after I took a photo of the O's FQ next to mine having new carpets fitted.
At least thyis will be my last dealings with DHE.
At least thyis will be my last dealings with DHE.
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FMQ and the French
Assisted house purchase in lieu of an FMQ is all very well until the time of posting. At that stage your family live in Newquay and you are posted to Kinloss. One wonders if the French are all local service??
There are several house sell / buy schemes already available, but with major discrepencies between the services. A Navy chap has to be age 21 and an RAF chap 35 to qualify for example. LSAP I think it is called, though I dont know what that actually stands for.
There are of course some outstanding MQ estates, a shame a common (high) standard is decades away. If all homeowners moved back in tomorrow, there is no way the service could cope, yet there is little support from Binsworth regarding tour length once you have bought your own place.
T_M
There are several house sell / buy schemes already available, but with major discrepencies between the services. A Navy chap has to be age 21 and an RAF chap 35 to qualify for example. LSAP I think it is called, though I dont know what that actually stands for.
There are of course some outstanding MQ estates, a shame a common (high) standard is decades away. If all homeowners moved back in tomorrow, there is no way the service could cope, yet there is little support from Binsworth regarding tour length once you have bought your own place.
T_M
Ministry of Defence Community Support
Allowances - Accommodation & Housing
Long Service Advance of Pay (LSAP) For Assisted House Purchase
Purpose of Allowance: An advance of pay intended to assist personnel to enter the housing market.NB Difference in age limits reflects different single service housing policies.
Basic Eligibility: Available to all regular personnel aged 35 or over in the Army and RAF, and aged 23 or over in the Naval Service, who are serving on pensionable engagements or commissions. The advance can be up to a maximum of £8,500 repayable over 10 years, the commencement of which can be deferred by 2 years if the individual has sufficient service remaining. Currently under review.
Up to £8,500
Loans over £5,000 taxable
Further Reading: Please contact your Unit General Office for further details.
References:
Air Publication 3392 Volume 3 Leaflet 126
Allowances - Accommodation & Housing
Long Service Advance of Pay (LSAP) For Assisted House Purchase
Purpose of Allowance: An advance of pay intended to assist personnel to enter the housing market.NB Difference in age limits reflects different single service housing policies.
Basic Eligibility: Available to all regular personnel aged 35 or over in the Army and RAF, and aged 23 or over in the Naval Service, who are serving on pensionable engagements or commissions. The advance can be up to a maximum of £8,500 repayable over 10 years, the commencement of which can be deferred by 2 years if the individual has sufficient service remaining. Currently under review.
Up to £8,500
Loans over £5,000 taxable
Further Reading: Please contact your Unit General Office for further details.
References:
Air Publication 3392 Volume 3 Leaflet 126
Champagne anyone...?
"Personnel entering the housing market". At 35? Marvellous 
Obviously I didn't qualify for this being far too young. Ish.
Interesting to note that the NHS pay their staffs all sorts of cash if they have to move house/relocate.
Obviously I didn't qualify for this being far too young. Ish.
Interesting to note that the NHS pay their staffs all sorts of cash if they have to move house/relocate.
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Nice to see this thread appear.
If anyone in the Big House, is still wondering why you can't recruit/retain......
Make your employeee happy, or more importantly, the other half, and it will improve his productivity.
And when he/she comes to move house, make sure you don't treat them like children. We know what state we took it over in thanks .
Still, fat lot Thatcher cared when she hoiked the lot to Nomura.
"Oh my wonderful brave servicemen and women, thank you so much for delivering us from Argentine/Iraqi evil etc etc. Now to show my appreciation, I'm going to sell all the best property at a knockdown rate to my mates , the nice people who helped me get in in the first place. As I won't need you again during my tenure, tough t1ts"
Strange, has an oddly familiar ring to it
If anyone in the Big House, is still wondering why you can't recruit/retain......
Make your employeee happy, or more importantly, the other half, and it will improve his productivity.
And when he/she comes to move house, make sure you don't treat them like children. We know what state we took it over in thanks .
Still, fat lot Thatcher cared when she hoiked the lot to Nomura.
"Oh my wonderful brave servicemen and women, thank you so much for delivering us from Argentine/Iraqi evil etc etc. Now to show my appreciation, I'm going to sell all the best property at a knockdown rate to my mates , the nice people who helped me get in in the first place. As I won't need you again during my tenure, tough t1ts"
Strange, has an oddly familiar ring to it
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"NB Difference in age limits reflects different single service housing policies."
This is cobblers. I looked in to this one and the only reason the RAF limit is 35 is because the pot of money from which payment is made is a RN fund and they calculated if EVERYONE across all three services was given the option at 21 the pot would run dry in seconds, and being RN dosh it's the RN who benefit in the first instance.
And as for benefits for NHS staff, did you know there are NHS personnel now occupying military FMQs in the SE as part of a Govt incentive?
This is cobblers. I looked in to this one and the only reason the RAF limit is 35 is because the pot of money from which payment is made is a RN fund and they calculated if EVERYONE across all three services was given the option at 21 the pot would run dry in seconds, and being RN dosh it's the RN who benefit in the first instance.
And as for benefits for NHS staff, did you know there are NHS personnel now occupying military FMQs in the SE as part of a Govt incentive?
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Anyone remember the Robson Report? (Ts & Cs report commissioned during a previous recruitment/retention crisis - funny how we re-invent the wheel every few years, innit?).
There was a wonderful one-liner in there that said something along the lines of - in this day and age service families have a right to leave a quarter otherwise than backwards on a sheet of newspaper. It was referring to a suggestion that families should be entitled to have a quarter professionally cleaned to march-out standard rather than doing it - or paying for it - themselves.
Even at around the time that was written (and obviously filed under B1N) I remember a neighbour in quarters being fined £50 for leaving the lawn slightly too long at march-out. The quarter was then left empty for about six months, at the end of which the lawn didn't so much need mowing as harvesting.
Nice to see that, in the 'modern' service, standards are so obviously being upheld.
There was a wonderful one-liner in there that said something along the lines of - in this day and age service families have a right to leave a quarter otherwise than backwards on a sheet of newspaper. It was referring to a suggestion that families should be entitled to have a quarter professionally cleaned to march-out standard rather than doing it - or paying for it - themselves.
Even at around the time that was written (and obviously filed under B1N) I remember a neighbour in quarters being fined £50 for leaving the lawn slightly too long at march-out. The quarter was then left empty for about six months, at the end of which the lawn didn't so much need mowing as harvesting.
Nice to see that, in the 'modern' service, standards are so obviously being upheld.
Last edited by Captain Gadget; 6th Aug 2002 at 06:35.
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TR,
going back to your original point, I could be wrong but I think this is a case of different budgets. When FQs are released to Annington to sell, Annington does all the work not DHE to make them more attractive to the market. Some houses in Colchester have just been sold off and were done up prior to being sold off.
They were however still a pile of sh*t inside and the take up by service personnel was small to the surprise of the sales staff! A lot of the work is merely cosmetic.
What still amazes me that when you move into your quarter and decorate, you have to paint it back to magnolia when you leave. I have taken over quarter and painted a bathroom from magnolia to blue - the same blue it had been prior to the previous residents leaving and painting it back to magnolia! On average I probably spend £500 per year on improvements to a quarter whilst living in it - many of the improvements I make I have to put reversed when I march out otherwise I get charged for it!
But when all is said and done the rent we pay for quarters is still well below market value in most cases and I would be paying about £600 - £800 per month for an equivalent civvy hiring.
I got on board the Service Home Savings Scheme when it started and used it to buy a house a few years ago. It netted me about £3000 on top of my investment and was a good scheme - except it was linked to MIRAS which was gradually phased out.
About time this modern service found a method of compensating people for years of upheaval by realistically assisting with house purchase, perhaps the LSAP available for all irrespective of age for a start.
GB
going back to your original point, I could be wrong but I think this is a case of different budgets. When FQs are released to Annington to sell, Annington does all the work not DHE to make them more attractive to the market. Some houses in Colchester have just been sold off and were done up prior to being sold off.
They were however still a pile of sh*t inside and the take up by service personnel was small to the surprise of the sales staff! A lot of the work is merely cosmetic.
What still amazes me that when you move into your quarter and decorate, you have to paint it back to magnolia when you leave. I have taken over quarter and painted a bathroom from magnolia to blue - the same blue it had been prior to the previous residents leaving and painting it back to magnolia! On average I probably spend £500 per year on improvements to a quarter whilst living in it - many of the improvements I make I have to put reversed when I march out otherwise I get charged for it!
But when all is said and done the rent we pay for quarters is still well below market value in most cases and I would be paying about £600 - £800 per month for an equivalent civvy hiring.
I got on board the Service Home Savings Scheme when it started and used it to buy a house a few years ago. It netted me about £3000 on top of my investment and was a good scheme - except it was linked to MIRAS which was gradually phased out.
About time this modern service found a method of compensating people for years of upheaval by realistically assisting with house purchase, perhaps the LSAP available for all irrespective of age for a start.
GB
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GB2, the different budget thing is the proverbial thrust of my whole argument!
WHY OH WHY are Annington allowed to get away with RIPPING OFF the MOD by renting them tatty properties that are so clearly in need of renovation work?
When will someone get a grip of these morally deficient get-rich-quick merchants, preferably by the neck, and explain that if the quarters they want to sell need a lick of paint, then so do the ones we are living in, possibly in time to make them a home worth returning to from Iraq (for example).
Rant off.
WHY OH WHY are Annington allowed to get away with RIPPING OFF the MOD by renting them tatty properties that are so clearly in need of renovation work?
When will someone get a grip of these morally deficient get-rich-quick merchants, preferably by the neck, and explain that if the quarters they want to sell need a lick of paint, then so do the ones we are living in, possibly in time to make them a home worth returning to from Iraq (for example).
Rant off.
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TR,
Don't blame Annington - it was the previous governments fault as they negociated the contract. Maintenance of the SFQs are the responsibility of DHE and DHE get a budget from the government to pay for maintenance and improvements. Annington has no responsibility for the maintenance - it is a private company.
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to defend the current situation as I think it sucks, but the blame lies with those who negociated the contract i.e. previous Gov't and those who manage the properties i.e. DHE. If DHE had a bigger budget and managed the whole thing better then we would be in a better way now. I have come across some good DHE staff and some very bad. Often the good staff get demoralised and leave - catch 22.
GB
Don't blame Annington - it was the previous governments fault as they negociated the contract. Maintenance of the SFQs are the responsibility of DHE and DHE get a budget from the government to pay for maintenance and improvements. Annington has no responsibility for the maintenance - it is a private company.
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to defend the current situation as I think it sucks, but the blame lies with those who negociated the contract i.e. previous Gov't and those who manage the properties i.e. DHE. If DHE had a bigger budget and managed the whole thing better then we would be in a better way now. I have come across some good DHE staff and some very bad. Often the good staff get demoralised and leave - catch 22.
GB
What really pi**es me off is why the serving members were not given a first refusal of the quaters. It was muted in the early stages that the MoD would sell the houses off cheap if you were allready serving. Then some high ranker said 'sod that' and instead of dealing with say 50000 seperate deals, they sold the lot off to a half Jap firm in a 1'er.
Cheers.. I know for a fact that some of the MQ's in this area were sold off at £12k a house to Annington...who in turn charged £70 when they sold them off after a meagre £2k of renovations on them!
Once again the forces are shafted by the HMG and Annington..
Read the one about the Queue of buyers in Kent? The houses went up some £20k in the 5 weeks that people were waiting for them. Concequently many people who had been queueing for 5 weeks could no longer get a mortgage for the amount Annington were asking for... I just hope that there is a massive price crash and Annington feels the pinch.. Ha,Ha.. sour grapes and all that..
Cheers.. I know for a fact that some of the MQ's in this area were sold off at £12k a house to Annington...who in turn charged £70 when they sold them off after a meagre £2k of renovations on them!
Once again the forces are shafted by the HMG and Annington..
Read the one about the Queue of buyers in Kent? The houses went up some £20k in the 5 weeks that people were waiting for them. Concequently many people who had been queueing for 5 weeks could no longer get a mortgage for the amount Annington were asking for... I just hope that there is a massive price crash and Annington feels the pinch.. Ha,Ha.. sour grapes and all that..
I am led to believe that the money for improving the FQs before they are handed over to Annington to sell actually comes from the DHE maintenance budget. This is why you cannot get any work services done on your quarter- they have used all their repair and decoration budget tarting houses up for sale!