Shoreham Airshow Crash Trial
Even for an NPPL he would need to make a medical declaration "affirming his medical fitness to fly". I don't see how such a claim could be compatible with the claims made on his behalf about his medical status in court.
The CAA can elect to review any medical declaration made and impose additional examination requirements.
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https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...pilot-10827389
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The original post in this resurgent post was "Mr Hill is now trying to get his licence back, which seems a trifle insensitive to little old me."
Has anyone seen any confirmation of this?
all there is that I can see is "Bob and Caroline Schilt spoke to ITV News Meridian ahead of a documentary airing tonight (28 December) on Discovery Plus which claims that the pilot is trying to have his licence reinstated." One journo quoting another journo about a TV claim which ....................................
Has anyone seen any confirmation of this?
all there is that I can see is "Bob and Caroline Schilt spoke to ITV News Meridian ahead of a documentary airing tonight (28 December) on Discovery Plus which claims that the pilot is trying to have his licence reinstated." One journo quoting another journo about a TV claim which ....................................
The original post in this resurgent post was "Mr Hill is now trying to get his licence back, which seems a trifle insensitive to little old me."
Has anyone seen any confirmation of this?
all there is that I can see is "Bob and Caroline Schilt spoke to ITV News Meridian ahead of a documentary airing tonight (28 December) on Discovery Plus which claims that the pilot is trying to have his licence reinstated." One journo quoting another journo about a TV claim which ....................................
Has anyone seen any confirmation of this?
all there is that I can see is "Bob and Caroline Schilt spoke to ITV News Meridian ahead of a documentary airing tonight (28 December) on Discovery Plus which claims that the pilot is trying to have his licence reinstated." One journo quoting another journo about a TV claim which ....................................
I think the "two sources" is something you'll find in the quality media -
TV producers??? Not quite the same - (and I know several) - it's all about THE STORY
But agree absolutely - Mr Hill could kill this with a word. If he doesn't on his own head etc etc
TV producers??? Not quite the same - (and I know several) - it's all about THE STORY
But agree absolutely - Mr Hill could kill this with a word. If he doesn't on his own head etc etc
You mean just like the one he made at Southport nearly putting a Strikemaster into the crowd at the Southport air show.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...pilot-10827389
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwhLSHpeiE8
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...pilot-10827389
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwhLSHpeiE8
What on earth was that supposed to be???
The T5 is not the most fun little jet to fly, but it generally does what it is told to. That was... awful, and you are correct to be concerned, the potential to have parked that aircraft into the dirt was pretty high. Had someone taken the driver aside and counseled him at that point, it might have been a better outcome for lots of families affected by a similar untidy bit of flying.
For the T5 effort, the ailerons are adequate for rolls, the nose attitude at the start of the roll is less than would be desirable but bugging out part way around as it did doesn't improve the flight path at all, continuing the roll would maintain the greatest separation from the ground. If this was an intended maneuver such as a derry turn, then that is equally awful.
The control column of the T5 can take a little time to get used to, and some coupling of actual input vs intended input can occur, which normally gets resolved in the first few minutes of flying the plane. It'll do a nice aileron roll, slow roll, hesitation roll, and derry turns are straightforward. Given the aircraft has just come out of a loop, there was lots of energy, it is mainly just untidy.
Last edited by fdr; 30th Dec 2023 at 10:03. Reason: Its a T5, not a SMR
Southport JP
I had never realised that JP display was flown by AH at Southport, was there with my young nephew probably slightly left of where that YouTube video shows.
I'd not pass comment on here about something I had no knowledge of or competency but just realised we might've been personally involved if he'd got that wrong - which it seems he did.
The video from that angle doesn't seem to show the full field of view perspective, as a smaller camera lens probably wouldn't due to optics. We were at beach level not that close to the crowdline (maybe 100m) looking up as he broke away to the North / Right after the roll - instantly realising from the visual of the Beach, Pier and the AC position he was low and close - closer and lower than it suggests on there.
Certainly it was one of those moments you sense as a pilot (relatively inexperienced though I may be) that it was a narrow escape, untidy might be too kind.
I do have a vivid memory of how bright the white and scarlet were backlit against a slightly murky sky as he climbed away.
Haven't loaded rolls / barrel rolls claimed lots of aircraft low down?
Edit: found this longer clip
Go to about 9:50... he was actually over the Pier
I'd not pass comment on here about something I had no knowledge of or competency but just realised we might've been personally involved if he'd got that wrong - which it seems he did.
The video from that angle doesn't seem to show the full field of view perspective, as a smaller camera lens probably wouldn't due to optics. We were at beach level not that close to the crowdline (maybe 100m) looking up as he broke away to the North / Right after the roll - instantly realising from the visual of the Beach, Pier and the AC position he was low and close - closer and lower than it suggests on there.
Certainly it was one of those moments you sense as a pilot (relatively inexperienced though I may be) that it was a narrow escape, untidy might be too kind.
I do have a vivid memory of how bright the white and scarlet were backlit against a slightly murky sky as he climbed away.
Haven't loaded rolls / barrel rolls claimed lots of aircraft low down?
Edit: found this longer clip
Go to about 9:50... he was actually over the Pier
Last edited by Shaft109; 1st Jan 2024 at 13:49. Reason: found a link to add
"Haven't loaded rolls / barrel rolls claimed lots of aircraft low down?"
A friend was showing me a picture of a commemorative plaque in the Royal Berks. Hospital in Reading it includes :- "Crashed slow-rolling near ground. Bad show.
— Douglas Bader,"
A friend was showing me a picture of a commemorative plaque in the Royal Berks. Hospital in Reading it includes :- "Crashed slow-rolling near ground. Bad show.
— Douglas Bader,"
You can't get much lower. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQbBxc7ixYM
Low altitude display flying requires a dedication and concentration level found in very few other endeavors.
Even for highly experienced military pilots, display flying is best left to those SPECIFICALLY trained in its execution and protocols.
Dudley Henriques
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My word, I bet it was. Presumably the display supervisor woudl have called 'knock it off' at that point, if the pilot hadn't already decided to do so. There is a lot of hard pull to the limits, with mushing, going on there - a pilot with a very old breath there I'd imagine as it actually bottomed out and started to climb.
Interesting to see how easily someone no doubt skilled, current and authorised can misjudge a maneouvre which has simultaneous pitch and roll; trying to define safe limit values for entry/continuation must be challenging.
As a very limited skill aerobatic pilot I think I can just about imagine how difficult that must be, keeping full situational awareness in such a fast changing circumstance.
Interesting to see how easily someone no doubt skilled, current and authorised can misjudge a maneouvre which has simultaneous pitch and roll; trying to define safe limit values for entry/continuation must be challenging.
As a very limited skill aerobatic pilot I think I can just about imagine how difficult that must be, keeping full situational awareness in such a fast changing circumstance.
Not to side track this thread too much but I wonder if the aircraft was a little hot for display flying in the early days?
I remember seeing (I think it was Southend, not sure which seaside display it was) a Typhoon getting a little out of shape during a manoeuvre and ending up over the town.
I remember seeing (I think it was Southend, not sure which seaside display it was) a Typhoon getting a little out of shape during a manoeuvre and ending up over the town.
My word, I bet it was. Presumably the display supervisor woudl have called 'knock it off' at that point, if the pilot hadn't already decided to do so. There is a lot of hard pull to the limits, with mushing, going on there - a pilot with a very old breath there I'd imagine as it actually bottomed out and started to climb.
Interesting to see how easily someone no doubt skilled, current and authorised can misjudge a maneouvre which has simultaneous pitch and roll; trying to define safe limit values for entry/continuation must be challenging.
As a very limited skill aerobatic pilot I think I can just about imagine how difficult that must be, keeping full situational awareness in such a fast changing circumstance.
Interesting to see how easily someone no doubt skilled, current and authorised can misjudge a maneouvre which has simultaneous pitch and roll; trying to define safe limit values for entry/continuation must be challenging.
As a very limited skill aerobatic pilot I think I can just about imagine how difficult that must be, keeping full situational awareness in such a fast changing circumstance.
Dudley Henriques
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XCD...usp=drive_link
There are myriad ways for display pilots to kill themselves when displaying an aircraft coming off Level one waivers. Some of these are errors involving BOTH low and high energy gates, density altitude as it affects both these parameters, energy loss maneuvers on the downline, barrel rolls due to the 3 dimensional factor causing arc error on the backside of the roll, and rolls where the pilot buries the nose and/or applies inside rudder early in the roll causing axis change to the roll coming off inverted and into the backside.
Low altitude display flying requires a dedication and concentration level found in very few other endeavors.
Even for highly experienced military pilots, display flying is best left to those SPECIFICALLY trained in its execution and protocols.
Dudley Henriques
Low altitude display flying requires a dedication and concentration level found in very few other endeavors.
Even for highly experienced military pilots, display flying is best left to those SPECIFICALLY trained in its execution and protocols.
Dudley Henriques
just to be clear, the intent of my comment wasn’t meant to suggest that highly trained display pilots are immune. As one can clearly see from the mountain home incident with Chris Stricklin and many others no pilot regardless of experience and expertise is immune from the dangers inherent in low altitude display flying
What on earth was that supposed to be???
The T5 is not the most fun little jet to fly, but it generally does what it is told to. That was... awful, and you are correct to be concerned, the potential to have parked that aircraft into the dirt was pretty high. Had someone taken the driver aside and counseled him at that point, it might have been a better outcome for lots of families affected by a similar untidy bit of flying.
For the T5 effort, the ailerons are adequate for rolls, the nose attitude at the start of the roll is less than would be desirable but bugging out part way around as it did doesn't improve the flight path at all, continuing the roll would maintain the greatest separation from the ground. If this was an intended maneuver such as a derry turn, then that is equally awful.
The control column of the T5 can take a little time to get used to, and some coupling of actual input vs intended input can occur, which normally gets resolved in the first few minutes of flying the plane. It'll do a nice aileron roll, slow roll, hesitation roll, and derry turns are straightforward. Given the aircraft has just come out of a loop, there was lots of energy, it is mainly just untidy.
The T5 is not the most fun little jet to fly, but it generally does what it is told to. That was... awful, and you are correct to be concerned, the potential to have parked that aircraft into the dirt was pretty high. Had someone taken the driver aside and counseled him at that point, it might have been a better outcome for lots of families affected by a similar untidy bit of flying.
For the T5 effort, the ailerons are adequate for rolls, the nose attitude at the start of the roll is less than would be desirable but bugging out part way around as it did doesn't improve the flight path at all, continuing the roll would maintain the greatest separation from the ground. If this was an intended maneuver such as a derry turn, then that is equally awful.
The control column of the T5 can take a little time to get used to, and some coupling of actual input vs intended input can occur, which normally gets resolved in the first few minutes of flying the plane. It'll do a nice aileron roll, slow roll, hesitation roll, and derry turns are straightforward. Given the aircraft has just come out of a loop, there was lots of energy, it is mainly just untidy.
My experience ( 3 and 4 at FTS, 3 and 5 at CFS and a tour on the 4 at SORF as the senior standards QFI) I found the jet to be totally predictable and always did as it was told. That includes some high rotational partial control spins with 100 pounds in the tips refreshing Lightning pilots on spin recovery at Leuchars.
….. but that roll at Southport was crassly flown. The JP has a semi symmetrical wing set at a positive incidence , like the Piston Provost, its origin.. To maintain constant altitude it was neccessary to raise the nose a little as the roll started and PUSH as inverted was reached to keep a high nose attitude. Failure to do this is what happened at Southport, hence the escape manoeuvre, far from just untidy.
Incredibly lucky not to have hit the ground.
Do you remember the far less debated crash of a Gnat at a show not that long before Shoreham? Because "only" the pilot was killed and the plane crashed in deserted woodland there was relatively little publicity. It should have raised all kinds of questions about the wisdom of operating these kinds of aircraft in civilian hands and them being flown quite legally by pilots, however experienced in the past, with very little (or virtually zero) currency on type.
And, for the record, the Gnat came down in woodland frequented by walkers, horse riders and dog walkers. And right on the edge of the public road cutting through the woods. A few hundred meters from a pub and similar distance from the event car parks and campsite if I recall. It too could have been so much worse, but for the grace of God and all that.
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Yes, I was there that day and saw it happen, my thoughts are exactly the same as yours. Shoreham was more than just a failure by a single individual, the rules and regs regarding "vintage" jet displays were far too lax for far too long. All the warning signs for a catastrophic event like Shoreham were there in plain sight, but the window of opportunity to prevent it was missed.
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