Crosswind landings
Thread Starter
Crosswind landings
What is the current teaching/ practice of the RAF for crosswind landings, particularly on large jets, eg Voyager, Sentry, A400 etc?
Obviously, it will be appropriate to the type. You finish with etc, but I guess you mean large aircraft generally? FWIW, the TriStar was approved by Lockheed for drifted or wing-down, up to 30kts x component in most conditions. However, RAF SOP taught wing-down. 
OAP
OAP
Last edited by Onceapilot; 24th Oct 2018 at 13:26.
VP,
Lockheed cleared either landing with drift applied or, wing down TD. "Kicking-off" drift is not a generally approved commercial transport technique. The wing down technique was approved with a limitation of 8 degrees of roll at TD, sufficient for a correctly applied aligned landing with 30kts across. However, the technique was not easy to master. Of course, A/L did it perfectly! And, so did some of us pilots!
OAP
Lockheed cleared either landing with drift applied or, wing down TD. "Kicking-off" drift is not a generally approved commercial transport technique. The wing down technique was approved with a limitation of 8 degrees of roll at TD, sufficient for a correctly applied aligned landing with 30kts across. However, the technique was not easy to master. Of course, A/L did it perfectly! And, so did some of us pilots!
OAP
OAP
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Ahh ... the link finally worked ... I had deleted the original post!
A good bootful of rudder at touchdown [and afterwards!].
A good bootful of rudder at touchdown [and afterwards!].
Thread Starter
Once a pilot is wrong. I did my Boeing conversion at Seattle and they approved my crab, push off drift technique, hold wings level or slightly into wind, as did my conversion with BOAC onto the VC 10. The Boeing training manual said that wing down or crab was recommended x wind technique. It’s what I taught as a CFS approved RAF. QFI.( and as a Boeing TC) and what we did on the V aircraft ( underwing tanks and refuelling pods) and Canberra. ( wingtip tanks)
My x wind technique was taught to me as an RAF stude and for the rest of my career, I used the crab , push off drift in the flare to land aligned with the runway..
Landing with drift appplied was not considered good airmanship to say the least.
I ask the question as I recently saw a video of B 757 ( on which I have a lot of command time) being landed in a 40 knot x wind with no attempt to remove the drift angle. it looked truly awful.
I wondered what was being taught, is acceptable, these days.
Informed comment from those up to date?
My x wind technique was taught to me as an RAF stude and for the rest of my career, I used the crab , push off drift in the flare to land aligned with the runway..
Landing with drift appplied was not considered good airmanship to say the least.
I ask the question as I recently saw a video of B 757 ( on which I have a lot of command time) being landed in a 40 knot x wind with no attempt to remove the drift angle. it looked truly awful.
I wondered what was being taught, is acceptable, these days.
Informed comment from those up to date?
Are you incapable of reasoned dialogue? Who mentioned Boeing, VC10 or your crab? 
I thougt that the original question referred to current RAF teaching - not specific aircraft types. All my RAF career (Many types and QFI) was the "crab" technique. Seemed to work, still here after some 20k hours!
Bill
Bill
Would be glad to hear comments from other RAF big jet SOP's?
OAP
Wing-down will always work, ensuring you land with no lateral drift, but it does mean a podded engine may be too close to the ground. Conversly, if you elect to crab, then unless you get it exactly right you're either going to land with lateral drift (ie you kicked the drift off too soon) or you'll still be crabbed off (ie kicked the drift off too late).
Of the various RAF ME types I've operated I've used both techniques, or even a blend of them (ie a bit of wing down but also some crabbing). The geometry of the tailwheel types requires them to be flown accurately aligned and with absolutely no lateral drift - so had to be flown wing-down, but also to a relatively low crosswind limit. The tricycle types will always yaw themselves straight after touchdown if you've not got it right, but it can feel very uncomfortable and can't do the gear much good.
Dont think I've ever seen a modern airliner using the wing-down technique.
Of the various RAF ME types I've operated I've used both techniques, or even a blend of them (ie a bit of wing down but also some crabbing). The geometry of the tailwheel types requires them to be flown accurately aligned and with absolutely no lateral drift - so had to be flown wing-down, but also to a relatively low crosswind limit. The tricycle types will always yaw themselves straight after touchdown if you've not got it right, but it can feel very uncomfortable and can't do the gear much good.
Dont think I've ever seen a modern airliner using the wing-down technique.
OAP
OAP
I once had to defend a TriShaw pilot who'd alarmed some REMF FJ Wg Cdr at MPA by 'large bank angles near the ground' on the final approach. Having spoken with ATC and obtained a tape, although the PAR was poorly flown, the final approach attitude was clearly due to the ex-Hercules pilot using the 'wing down' technique in the usual MPA crosswind, which was alien to this FJ Wg Cdr. In fact I'd been on board the TriShaw at the time and the landing seemed entirely routine from a passenger's point of view.
Anyone who 'kicks off' the drift or uses 'bootfulls' of rudder deserves a good kicking themselves! One merely aligns the aeroplane with the runway at the same rate which one uses to initiate the flare. Once down, into wind control column and forward pressure helps - although FBW aircraft may have some control laws of their own, I guess.
But if an A380 can cope with 40-50 kt crosswinds using thewing down crab technique, I'd have thought that pilots of smaller aircraft should also be able to manage the technique:
Anyone who 'kicks off' the drift or uses 'bootfulls' of rudder deserves a good kicking themselves! One merely aligns the aeroplane with the runway at the same rate which one uses to initiate the flare. Once down, into wind control column and forward pressure helps - although FBW aircraft may have some control laws of their own, I guess.
But if an A380 can cope with 40-50 kt crosswinds using the
Last edited by BEagle; 25th Oct 2018 at 06:02. Reason: Wrong tekneek!