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Scampton And Linton-on-Ouse Closure

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Scampton And Linton-on-Ouse Closure

Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:08
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
The loss of Linton will certainly simplify getting airspace for RAFAT practice 'oop there, based at Leeming..
I'm sure Leeming was mooted as the new home of the Reds some years ago, and killed off due to safety concerns for all those distracted HGV drivers on the A1(M) causing accidents that would then be blamed on the RAF.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:09
  #42 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post

Bob, You need a pretty serious crash cat for a transport aircraft full of pax, so getting the appropriate number of fire engines to your runway at an army base would be n issue. The other reason ( excuse) they always quoted was passenger and baggage handling equipment , ie steps, conveyor belts and things.. Oh yes and PCN/ LCN.
I seem to recall a B747 landing at RAF Gutersloh in the early 1980s and the military passengers were tasked with unloading the baggage. They beat the usual unloading time into a cocked hat.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:09
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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BV, on tactical AT ac it used to be standard policy for us to collect/ drop off via a unitís home base but this changed a number of years ago probably due to airfield fire cover etc as described above. For the larger AT which carry most pax it was probably always the case. I can remember flying to Brize many years ago to collect freight for Lossiemouth that had come in on a Tristar as that ac couldnít land there.

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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:11
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by skippedonce View Post
Any word on relocation for 1ACC, or in the wonderful new world of the Air Ops Branch will everyone go to Swanwick?
In theory, 1ACC could go anywhere with buildings and electricity. Their mobility concept shouldnít require a massive fixed-base infrastructure.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:11
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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BV, not a bad question.

Sometimes the legal fire and rescue cover couldn't be achieved nearer to passengers' ultimate destination. Some aerodromes had limited taxiway width etc., also it wasn't so much the crew duty time which might be limiting but the aircraft's next allocated task.

Things improved a little during my (fortunately brief) exposure to the world of trucking and we certainly collected and returned passengers to their ultimate destination whenever possible. But we were often up against the blinkered stupidity of Ascot Ops, I regret to say. Airlines use their cleverest people for schedule planning, whereas the RAF did not.

It was different if returning FJ crews and support personnel to the UK on an AAR trail as we were then under the delegated control of an AARC. Most of whom would agree to approval to land at places such as Marham, Wittering, Leeming and Leuchars even if it meant burning more fuel. But that wasn't always possible, also the MT for passengers might be at the mercy of their own station. This one time (not at band camp!) when I brought some FJ folk back to the UK it hadn't been possible to arrange to fly them direct from ASI to Wattisham but they were hugely glad not to be going back deafened and starved in the bowels of an Albert. One of their number told me that their MT Ops wouldn't send a bus until they'd been told that the VC10 was about to land at Brize; I'd faced the same in my short time on 56 so was very sympathetic. An HF phonepatch to Wattisham off the sticky-out bit of Africa and a little white lie did mean though that the Wattisham bus arrived at the precise moment the passengers had cleared customs and the movers. Which probably saved them about 5 hours of frustration.

But you wouldn't believe the opposition we often faced from some jumped-up 'Unit Mobility Officers' when we'd offered to fly passengers home when we had the opportunity.

My favourite RTB with pax was flying a pairs VRIAB at Wittering with the first GR5 when we came back from Dubai via Akrotiri. We broke first, extended downwind whilst the Harrier landed, then dropped off the pax and were UK customs cleared by the SDO!
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:15
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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No room at Swanwick. It's overflowing with NATS personnel at the moment.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:16
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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BEagle

Good answer.

Maybe just getting that message across clearly might have helped the RAF AT image somewhat.

BV
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:18
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post

In theory, 1ACC could go anywhere with buildings and electricity. Their mobility concept shouldn’t require a massive fixed-base infrastructure.
But in practice, not since they became a 'hybrid' unit, by taking on the static role of the previous CRC Scampton in addition to their mobile capability.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:24
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
BV, not a bad question.

Sometimes the legal fire and rescue cover couldn't be achieved nearer to passengers' ultimate destination. Some aerodromes had limited taxiway width etc., also it wasn't so much the crew duty time which might be limiting but the aircraft's next allocated task.

Things improved a little during my (fortunately brief) exposure to the world of trucking and we certainly collected and returned passengers to their ultimate destination whenever possible. But we were often up against the blinkered stupidity of Ascot Ops, I regret to say. Airlines use their cleverest people for schedule planning, whereas the RAF did not.

It was different if returning FJ crews and support personnel to the UK on an AAR trail as we were then under the delegated control of an AARC. Most of whom would agree to approval to land at places such as Marham, Wittering, Leeming and Leuchars even if it meant burning more fuel. But that wasn't always possible, also the MT for passengers might be at the mercy of their own station. This one time (not at band camp!) when I brought some FJ folk back to the UK it hadn't been possible to arrange to fly them direct from ASI to Wattisham but they were hugely glad not to be going back deafened and starved in the bowels of an Albert. One of their number told me that their MT Ops wouldn't send a bus until they'd been told that the VC10 was about to land at Brize; I'd faced the same in my short time on 56 so was very sympathetic. An HF phonepatch to Wattisham off the sticky-out bit of Africa and a little white lie did mean though that the Wattisham bus arrived at the precise moment the passengers had cleared customs and the movers. Which probably saved them about 5 hours of frustration.

But you wouldn't believe the opposition we often faced from some jumped-up 'Unit Mobility Officers' when we'd offered to fly passengers home when we had the opportunity.

My favourite RTB with pax was flying a pairs VRIAB at Wittering with the first GR5 when we came back from Dubai via Akrotiri. We broke first, extended downwind whilst the Harrier landed, then dropped off the pax and were UK customs cleared by the SDO!
Not unlike the US, whether its an army aviation unit, ground unit, USMC aviation or ground unit - the CRAF contracted out airlines do fly back to the exact air bases/ air stations / army airfields after deployment.

I attended Scampton airshow last sept and was saddened too by the state of some of the buildings.....

So Reds likely to relocate to Wittering or Leeming??

cheers
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:27
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post

A company/battalion/battlegroup that has spent several months deployed to somewhere sh1tty might be quite appreciative of a drop off at home. Especially if home happens to be in Scotland.
Seen trooping flights using Edinburgh Airport over the last 20 years, especialy in the VC10 days
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:54
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Down to the bare bones of front line stations now - Brize, Lossie, Waddington, Odiham, Coningsby, Valley, Benson, Marham!!
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:00
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Stewy

Donít forget Yeovilton, Culdrose, Leeming and Wittering. Although I understand the sentiment of your post.

BV
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:01
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Here is an Idea, sell Hendon for housing and use the funds to transfer the RAF Museum to Scampton, I would imagine the enlarged historical site would be ideal and the funding generated from selling the prime site at Hendon would fund it all.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:04
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Scampton may be a valuable piece of real estate, but what if the new owner takes offence to having the grave of a dog called Nigger. I suppose he could be exhumed and reintered at York Minster, but I don't think the incumbent bishop would approve, in that case would it not the most appropriate final resting place for Nigger, as the most famous RAF dog, be be St. Clement Danes, it would be two fingers up to political correctness.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:07
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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https://content.historicengland.org....erisation.pdf/
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:13
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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BV, sadly most truckies were unwilling to make waves and suggest alternatives... Those of us who'd been buggered about in previous existences were more likely to try.

I've flown trooping flights to/from Lossiemouth, Kinloss, Turnhouse, Manchester in shiny VC10s and to Marham, Wittering, East Midlands, Leuchars in the VC10K.

Can do - if allowed!

Some pax are never satisfied though - we once gave some pompous pongo officer a lift to Germany. It was a double IRT sortie, so Brize to the Clutch took a couple of hours and 3 approaches, taking-off at 10:00 local. Rather than thanking anyone, said pongo huffed and puffed about the time it was taking....

Just for once could a thread about Scampton NOT become a conversation about that sodding dog...PLEASE!

Last edited by BEagle; 24th Jul 2018 at 16:22.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:15
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by skippedonce View Post
I'm sure Leeming was mooted as the new home of the Reds some years ago, and killed off due to safety concerns for all those distracted HGV drivers on the A1(M) causing accidents that would then be blamed on the RAF.
Would apply to Wittering as well then.....

You'd have thought Chivenor would have been the ideal place to base the RA.......had they not given it away to the RM.....?
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:37
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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I have it on good authority that the government is going to lease space at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. Buying slots will be expensive, but apparently it will be a saving. BA are going to service airframes and BA pilots will fly the aircraft on off duty hours. Ok I made it all up, but the way things are going, it won't be long. What a mess!
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:39
  #59 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Donít forget Yeovilton, Culdrose, Leeming and Wittering. Although I understand the sentiment of your post.

BV
As you pull the pins from the map the distances between runways increases, fuel reserves increase, and flying hours reduce. Throw night flying in to the pot and it was almost inevitable we had to use civil airfields, and that was 20 years ago. Holding Manchester from Coningsby or Leeming from Lossie was a drag.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:48
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Plus when you start to resurface runways etc, your options to disperse become limitied.
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