Civilians and RAF Brevets
Notwithstanding (some of) the fascinating insights into World War II training practices, I would just like to make the point that this thread does not concern the 'award' of the RAF Flying Badge to pilots upon completion of a training course.
Instead it refers to the alleged attempt being made by some civilian contractor to circumvent the regulatory requirements for civil instructors, who are NOT members of HM forces, by handing them the RAF Flying Badge - as though that trumps all other requirements - so that the contractor can take advantage of an Air Navigation Order article which ONLY refers to members of HM forces. This is so that they can avoid having to pay for the issue and maintenance of the relevant civil ratings.
Could we stick to the scope of that topic, please?
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Any scheme which saves money has to be a plus. Is there any evidence that it is lowering standards?
As the posts about WW2 training in the USA demonstrate there is nothing novel about civilian instructors being given brevets. The precedent having been set, why should it not be followed?
Is there anything else to discuss on the point?
As the posts about WW2 training in the USA demonstrate there is nothing novel about civilian instructors being given brevets. The precedent having been set, why should it not be followed?
Is there anything else to discuss on the point?
Surely this goes a bit deeper than 'just' the award (?) of an RAF Brevet; this must presumably mean that these civilian instructors will fly under Military Flying Regulations, which then opens up their 'ability' to instruct ALL elements of the course. This would no doubt include low flying and other military specific evolutions which cannot be done under the ANO, but which they would have had little, if any, previous experience. They would not just be teaching 'circuits and bumps' and basic IF - assuming that the students will receive live flying in those other disciplines rather than a bit of time in a part-task trainer!!! No doubt a win-win for MFTS and their accountants - much cheaper to hire civilian FIs than ex-mil QFIs (and QHIs?). The first CFS standards visits could be interesting.
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Hello roving. Wing Commander Moxham was the C.O. at Terrell when I arrived in October 1943, shortly followed by Wing Commander Tomkins who was the C.O. When I left in June 1944. They did a lot of check rides with the pupils and were both very good COs. There is a very good BFTS Museum in Terrell. Worth a look on the internet.
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Hello roving. Wing Commander Moxham was the C.O. at Terrell when I arrived in October 1943, shortly followed by Wing Commander Tomkins who was the C.O. When I left in June 1944. They did a lot of check rides with the pupils and were both very good COs. There is a very good BFTS Museum in Terrell. Worth a look on the internet.
Moxham was very kind to my dad. Having completed his flying instructor's course, my dad requested a posting to a front line operational squadron flying Spitfires. That request was refused and he was destined to be posted to a training unit in the UK. Moxham, then back in the UK, heard about this and said "Leave it with me". True to his word he arranged for my dad's posting to 208 Squadron, then in Syria (I think) and about to re-equip with MK V (and later MK IX) Spitfires, before being posted to Italy in 1944.
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Ormeside (#79),
Nice to hear that you "civilised" your American colleagues ! As to Terrell, you BFTS lot had it "jammy". We poor Arnoldites only had eight weeks in any one spot, and that usually in some God-forsaken camp in the back of beyond, with no town in sight.
You were (in most cases) on or near the a town airport, settled for the whole six months in one locality, finding it much easier to develop social contacts (particularly with the younger, smaller, prettier and sweeter-smelling of the townsfolk !)
Grrr ! Danny.
Nice to hear that you "civilised" your American colleagues ! As to Terrell, you BFTS lot had it "jammy". We poor Arnoldites only had eight weeks in any one spot, and that usually in some God-forsaken camp in the back of beyond, with no town in sight.
You were (in most cases) on or near the a town airport, settled for the whole six months in one locality, finding it much easier to develop social contacts (particularly with the younger, smaller, prettier and sweeter-smelling of the townsfolk !)
Grrr ! Danny.
